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England v France - Saturday 10/12 - 19:00, ITV

dessiato said:
AmateurAgitator be careful what you say. Some posters think only England supporters are allowed to post here.

And don't forget, England were robbed, the ref was being paid to rob England of a win, and he was obviously a French supporter. It can never be that England, on the day, just weren't good, or lucky, enough. Some can't just enjoy the game as it is, and for the pleasure of the game. And it is only a game.
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I think you're reading stuff into this thread that isn't there. The ref WAS dodge, but that was across his entire performance. Re. the rest, the English contingent here seem pretty au fait with what happened and why/how. They were in the game throughout despite an effective first half rom the French. France went into panic mode at times in the second half, but had enough threat to keep the scoreboard ticking. England were on their tailcoats and extra time wouldn't have been a surprise to anyone watching the game.

Jonathan Liew's article is dismissive fretwankery.
 
AmateurAgitator said:
England fans are always sore losers. There'll be stella-fuelled attacks on spouses and xenophobic violence as we speak.

Anyway, I'm glad England are out - the wave of patriotic bullshit had they continued and maybe even won (as if) would have been thoroughly nauseating and the whole Qatar 2022 event is utterly vile.

And if I did actually give a shit about footy, which I don't, I'd acknowledge that the actual, real footy is club football and not all this national team bollocks.
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Ah see you edited. That's nice dear. Do keep us all updated on all the stuff you don't give a shit about. We need to know. :)
 
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dessiato said:
I'm not allowed to say anything because it offends some posters.

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It's only a game of football at the end of the day. It's not that important really.
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What you mean is you don't want anyone to say what they want in response to you. This is a message board. It's literally how it works. Say what you want, but if you annoy someone (nobody's "offended" you silly billy) you can expect a response.
 
AmateurAgitator said:
England fans are always sore losers. There'll be stella-fuelled attacks on spouses and xenophobic violence as we speak.

Anyway, I'm glad England are out - the wave of patriotic bullshit had they continued and maybe even won (as if) would have been thoroughly nauseating and the whole Qatar 2022 event is utterly vile.

And if I did actually give a shit about footy, which I don't, I'd acknowledge that the actual, real footy is club football and not all this national team bollocks.
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It's a bit pathetic that your only posts in this particular forum are after England are out. Almost as though you're deliberately trying to wind people up. I don't mind ABEs when they're always at it, I can respect that, but posting once there's maximum opportunity to irritate is like a snide little kid putting a boot in once the fight's over :rolleyes:
 
AmateurAgitator said:
Jonathan Liew ( in the Observer) sums it up perfectly:

" there comes a point where events are no longer under your control, the point at which instinct and will and self-mythology – the kind of things you can’t train or put in a protein smoothie – take over.

England rose to the occasion. France had no need, for the occasion was already France-sized. England were brave. France had no need to be brave, as their default level of courage was already sufficient. England believed. France knew. Even in the stickier periods, as England surged and the noise swelled, France simply kept their discipline, made sure every necessary ball was contested, every necessary shot was blocked. And when they had five good minutes, they scored.
Which is why to home in on the finer details of this match, to fixate on passing maps and substitutions and refereeing decisions and 1%ers, is really to discuss a game that never happened."

Au revoir Angleterre.
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What Liew doesn't say in his article is that France were in England's position a couple of decades back and put in the groundwork to fix their situation. They weren't always winning world cups and euros. England have put in groundwork that has taken them to QF, SF and a final in recent tournaments, a very consistent run. Getting onto that next level might be hard, but it's not impossible and not the preserve of an elite. England are in a position now of having a real fighter's chance of going deep in any tournament. Thereafter it's fine margins. Sometimes things fall for you, sometimes they don't. England did enough last night to take France all the way but for a penalty. There's nothing philosophical in what happened, and the top table is not behind a locked door. If it were, why would anyone bother trying to get there? Look at Croatia - only a million more people live there than in Wales and they always go deep in tournaments. They belong at the top table even without having won a tournament. They can win this thing without doubt. But if they don't, are they (along with all the other teams who didn't win the cup) shite, inferior psychologically or technically? Probably not in a lot of cases, but only one team can win a tournament. And France only won a QF. No need for anyone to lose their shit over them at this stage either.

Fuck it, I'm wasting my time here aren't I.
 
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There's a tendency to play England down because of past failures but Kane, Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Walker, Saka would all grace any team in the tournament. That's why last night was annoying, it was so close. Decisions or key moments didn't go our way but they almost did.
 
Really not fussed at all about going out tbh, we have to do it at some point, and against decent opposition is slightly easier to take. This is a bit of an asterixed world cup anyway, didn't want to win it. No England fan would expect us to beat Morocco, of course

As a spurs fan, I'm incredibly gutted for Kane. at the start of the game where the theoretical worst thing that can happen is that we lose. How wrong I was! The error is so specific, and all on him...I think this WC will be remembered in years to come as "the one held at Christmas where Kane missed a penalty".
 
Ted Striker said:
Really not fussed at all about going out tbh, we have to do it at some point, and against decent opposition is slightly easier to take. This is a bit of an asterixed world cup anyway, didn't want to win it. No England fan would expect us to beat Morocco, of course

As a spurs fan, I'm incredibly gutted for Kane. at the start of the game where the theoretical worst thing that can happen is that we lose. How wrong I was! The error is so specific, and all on him...I think this WC will be remembered in years to come as "the one held at Christmas where Kane missed a penalty".
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I doubt there's a reasonable person on the planet who would blame Kane for the loss. Pens get missed all the time. Anyone who's got the bollocks to stand up and take one in front of 50 million people, gets a pass whatever the outcome.
 
Spymaster said:
I doubt there's a reasonable person on the planet who would blame Kane for the loss. Pens get missed all the time. Anyone who's got the bollocks to stand up and take one in front of 50 million people, gets a pass whatever the outcome.
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i actually think it's a testament of Southgate's humungous anti-dickhead revolution, that I think the players and mature and mentally strong enough not to be tortured by thoughts such as:

"FFS...All he had to do was score, Morocco in the Semis too, i can only do 3 or 4 WC's in my career, will I ever get an opportunity as good as this ever again for my sports ultimate prize and the next best thing to immortality? All. You. Had. To. Do. Was. Score, Harry...Arrrrggggghhhhhhhh"

I know I would stew on this for the rest of my life!
 
AmateurAgitator said:
England fans are always sore losers. There'll be stella-fuelled attacks on spouses and xenophobic/racist violence from them as we speak.

Anyway, I'm glad England are out - the wave of patriotic bullshit had they continued and maybe even won (as if) would have been thoroughly nauseating and the whole Qatar 2022 event is utterly vile.

And if I did actually give a shit about footy, which I don't, I'd acknowledge that the actual, real footy is club football and not all this national team bollocks.
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You can almost see the glint in teh eye when he launched this particular trolling post. "This will get 'em going".
 
Southgate has built a England team that's better and more pleasurable to watch than the old blood'n'guts era of Butcher, Pearce etc, where 'passion' was thought to be enough to win the WC... having said that, I do wonder if England could have benefitted from a Vieira / Keane / Gattuso type hard nut central defender / midfielder who would've put it about like the French players were doing. Given that the referee was letting all sorts of naughtiness go unpunished. At some moments I felt I'd been time-warped and was watching Gallic versions of Norman Hunter or Tommy Smith :D

Yes, the ref was poor - but he did award England two penalties... and the fact is that France took their chances, scoring twice in open play where England didn't. England probably deserved a draw and extra time, but would still have lost on penalties - so at least we were spared that potential Groundhog Day horror :eek:


Nothing to be ashamed of in losing to the reigning champions, who were forced to 'win dirty' in order to neutralise England's pacey, skilful players. I enjoyed Saka's runs at their defence, Bellingham is a pleasure to watch too - looking forward to the Euros in 2024.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
That's bollocks tbf. After the fact rationalisation. Two good attacking teams both created plenty of chances and worried the hell out of the opposition defences. England missed a pen and that was the difference between them in the end.
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+ a couple of good going on excellent saves by their keeper and England tickled the woodwork a time or two (maybe France did as well, can't remember).
 
Ted Striker said:
Really not fussed at all about going out tbh, we have to do it at some point, and against decent opposition is slightly easier to take. This is a bit of an asterixed world cup anyway, didn't want to win it. No England fan would expect us to beat Morocco, of course

As a spurs fan, I'm incredibly gutted for Kane. at the start of the game where the theoretical worst thing that can happen is that we lose. How wrong I was! The error is so specific, and all on him...I think this WC will be remembered in years to come as "the one held at Christmas where Kane missed a penalty".
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Yeah, I'm with you about the *. Wanted England to win, but don't feel that bad about going out. If they'd got to the final, would have also wanted them to win, but hated the idea of them standing there with the trophy in front of the Qatari royals etc.
 
One observation (which I took much pleasure in how I describe it :) ) is that Foden plays like he's done a John Terry (shagged a team-mates partner) or done something massively obnoxious to make everyone hate him. But the boss has put him in the side (maybe he doesn't know and/or can't be told about the indiscretion) and they will do what the boss asks for, and have him in the team but they all adopt a "but that doesn't mean we have to play with him".

He was so infrequently passed to, and (to his immense credit) seems to use his speed to dart back and in to start any interesting shit....But basically had to start his move himself (cos no one else was going to do it for him).

And when he did have the ball, it felt difficult to get rid of (i.e. the team wanted him to fail (or were just unwilling to make the same effort) by not dashing to create a secure/productive angle.

FTR, I really rate him in theory, and Iove his style of being a busy little fucker, always darting around like he's just come on as sub (though tbf he does a lot!)...but i don't see where Guardiola described him as the best player or prospect he's ever seen eva. The France performance is, sadly, much too often classic international foden, and I'm just waiting for the day he explodes and changes a game single handidly.

Also he comes across as a whopping good egg in interviews (and the gazza tribute haircut in the Euros is instant Hall of Fame stuff), so I doubt my batshit theory has legs....But if it does come out, you heard it here first!
 
Spymaster said:
I doubt there's a reasonable person on the planet who would blame Kane for the loss. Pens get missed all the time. Anyone who's got the bollocks to stand up and take one in front of 50 million people, gets a pass whatever the outcome.
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Maybe he shouldn't have taken two against his club teammate?.
 
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