Electric cars
- Thread starter ch750536
- Start date
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Not until we have clean electric to produce the hydrogen. It's a very inefficient process.
So .. we are screwed.
It's a pity someone didnt come up with something to remove the emissions from petrol cars.
Eta. Not being smart...btw.
(I know nothing about cars really)
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beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
It's almost as if the solution to cars isn't... more cars. Strange that.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
No we aren't screwed. EVs enable carbon free motoring, at least at the point of use. Whether we can have as many on the road as petrol cars, or continue growing the number of cars may be questionable, but there is nothing wrong with EVs as such, once the grid is decarbonised.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
... and the child slavery abolished.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
It's really not impossible. Latest National Grid report out today outlines three different ways it could happen by 2035.... and the child slavery abolished.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Despite my obvious scepticism, I do hope it works.
Hydrogen may play a role in the future. Currently 95% of hydrogen (UK anyway) we can use comes from fossil fuels so that needs to change. I suspect Hydrogen will probably play more of a roll in commercial aviation in the future but I'm getting into Tomorrow's World style soothsaying.
The thing about electric cars is that they can and will get cleaner as the grids get cleaner. If / when the grids become 100% (or effectively) renewable energy than all electric cars will de facto be powered by 100% renewable energy. Every PHEV will be powered by 20% (or whatever, the % will vary) renewable energy and 80% fossil fuel. All ICE cars (including hybrids) will still be 100% fossil fuel. They can never get any better whereas electric should only get better. This is without talking about the emissions which are currently choking our cities and poisoning the population. 20k deaths per year in London alone are attributed to poor air quality, by comparison Covid has only killed just over 15k in 18 months.
I've got a bit side-lined into talking about the environmental aspects when I'm not some placard carrying extinction rebellion person. My intention on this thread is to dispel some of the myths around electric cars and get people more excited about them. Its happening and there is nothing to fear, moreover they're pretty great and will only get better.
Embrace the future people (and get a better energy deal from your supplier).
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beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
They’re still cars though, with all the problems they bring. The solution isn’t electric cars, it’s a (huge) reduction in cars.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
A significant amount of air pollution - the particulate pollution - comes from brake pads. tyre and road surface wearing: Pollution warning over car tyre and brake dust
But ICEs is all that plus the CO2 emissions so it's still a huge improvement, but it's not an end to air pollution by any means.
Of course and I've said exactly this on this thread. Lets face it though saying people should just get rid of their cars has been as effective as just say no to drugs.
You can see the pushback on this thread from what is simply a change in power source. Some of it is understandable, some of it bizarre and some of it appears to be nothing more than I don't understand it so I don't like it.
As we move towards a system where the private car becomes a thing of the past how we move around will be based on the technology we are discussing on this thread. I think we can all see a future where car clubs and self-driving ubers etc will be the norm (in cities at least). The technology has to be in place though and the money to build it and the way that will come will be from the mass market today.
I'm not saying this is the best solution, a good solution or even a solution in itself but in the absence of any global governmental leadership it is the most likely.
Leafster
.
Since EVs use regenerative braking they don't wear the pads down as quickly and therefore reduce this type of particulate compared to ICE vehicles.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Self driving cars are a lot further away than various headlines would have us believe.
The solution - the only solution - available right now is a huge reduction in private car use. People will not give them up by choice, it will need to be forced. Make them far more expensive, make them harder (impossible) to use in cities, while creating affordable, reliable public transport and building infrastructure that supports active travel.
All that is possible, now. It would also be (relatively) cheap to do. Mass adoption of electric cars and/or self driving vehicles isn’t, and we don’t have the time to wait for them.
hash tag
Books, not bombs
I know this is lorry's and would only work on major roads, but all the same, an interesting idea
www.driving.co.uk
Motorways could get overhead power lines for electric lorries
A government-backed study has recommended that slow lanes on motorways should be transformed into “e-highways” for lorries, as part of a plan that would lower the UK’s emissions by as much as 5%.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I'd agree, except I suspect the method would be to make it harder to use them before actually improving the infrastructure. It's not an either/or. I'd never drive to London for example, because it's easier to get the train and public transport whilst I'm there.
I agree but I don't think its a solution because its never going to happen. I can't see the UK electing a government who had this as their policy. When you need a revolution to occur living in a sort of democracy as we do can be a real barrier to big change. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think history is our friend here.
Just saying what won't happen over and over again is no way to get change. We have to ask what can be achieved.
I work in construction, I am a massive advocate for building a better living environment and a big part of that is the thermal performance of our homes. Currently large swathes of the UK housing stock is woeful when it comes down to energy conservation. If I had my way I would mandate it that everyone is legally obliged to bring their home up to the highest standard possible from a heat loss perspective. Ain't going to happen though, why would anyone vote for that?
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Make land lords pay and offer incentives to people who own their home. Make sure the money from the incentives goes to small companies rather then big tory doners. Of course it won't happen.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I don't think this endless 'not going to happen' stuff is helpful at all. At some point carbon emissions have to cease or mass extinction. There is no permanent living-with-it solution. There will be huge investment in energy efficiency and new heating systems, and there will be huge changes to the transport system. It's just a matter of time and the longer it takes the more disruptive it is likely to be.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
It is happening though, in various places around the world. We just happen to be in a shitty, miserable little country that’s decades behind.
It will happen here and elsewhere. It’s inevitable. We don’t have any other choice.
And yes, there’s dozens of other areas where change is required, sooner rather than later. Our decades of ignoring the problems is going to mean a huge amount of rapid change becomes necessary, and people aren’t going to like it. Tough. The ship has sailed.
But what you're describing is what is happening but in a relatively slow process. This is exactly why we're discussing electric cars on this thread. I just don't think the overnight revolution is possible. Christ enough people shat the bed over led lights and not being able to buy filament anymore.
Any government in a democracy (even a piss poor one like ours) has to be able to bring enough of the population along with it, even is they were minded to enter a revolution. In this regard I don't think expounding absolutist positions gets things fixed no matter how right they are.
This is me though, I am a firm believer in compromising where necessary to achieve things.
I mean, we're mostly all agreeing with each other here just debating the best way to get to where we need to be.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
Yeah I think we are agreeing. I just feel like I endlessly read reasons why change can't happen, or won't happen - when clearly the logic of the physics mean eventually it will - and we are not lacking in road maps, scenarios, worked out plans for lots of the different elements. The only missing bit is political will (and also political capture by fossil fuel interests) and that won't change if everyone has a sort of apathetic 'never going to happen' attitude.
and also - I think we are very bad as humans at noticing change as it happens gradually - just think of all the change in the last 50 years. And that means we discount things changing from our current norms.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
The LED comparison is a good one. The first ones were resisted by a lot of people (me included) because they were utterly terrible. A good idea in theory, but not a suitable replacement. Now the tech has advanced and they’re the norm. We’re at the “good idea but still flawed” stage with EV’s.
The difference of course is that while we all need to see in our homes at night, we don’t all need private cars…
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I think I'm starting to agree with you. Remove private cars from anyone who doesn't live in a rural location. I reckon I can get behind that.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
And when those who live in a rural location want to visit a city they drive to a station and join everyone else on public transport.
Then we look at rural transport solutions.
Congratulations, you got there in the end
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
It’s a great idea, but perhaps could be made a bit better by coupling lots of the trailers together? It would be able to pull more. Then maybe we could create some sort of system that means the driver doesn’t have to worry about steering it. I reckon a pair of steel rails under the wheels would work.I know this is lorry's and would only work on major roads, but all the same, an interesting idea
Motorways could get overhead power lines for electric lorries
A government-backed study has recommended that slow lanes on motorways should be transformed into “e-highways” for lorries, as part of a plan that would lower the UK’s emissions by as much as 5%.
View attachment 283247
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
No, that isn't part of the plan. The plan is to cram Londoners onto buses, and leave the roads for people who need and deserve them.And when those who live in a rural location want to visit a city they drive to a station and join everyone else on public transport.
Then we look at rural transport solutions.
Congratulations, you got there in the end
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
That was my first thought. Possibly the most stupid transport idea I've ever seen.
And right on que... (crap article alert by the way)
Electric cars: Do ministers put their motor where their mouth is?
Politicians are keen for us to live greener lives, but how many have taken the electric car plunge?
www.bbc.co.uk
Are we being watched?
BigTom
Well-Known Member
And right on que... (crap article alert by the way)
Electric cars: Do ministers put their motor where their mouth is?
Politicians are keen for us to live greener lives, but how many have taken the electric car plunge?www.bbc.co.uk
Are we being watched?
well you know what to do... time to start talking about cars powered by crack squirrels running inside the wheels. Hit the accelerator? Gives them more crack so they run faster!
See which paper of note picks up the story...
