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Electric cars

hash tag said:
Another infrastructure issue not considered yet is having sufficient electricity available. There are people who keep an eye on power demands, peaks and troughs because power cannot be stored. They plan for demands during the adverts of certain television programmes or breaks in major sporting events when lots of people boil their kettle at the same time.
Could we cope with a huge surge in demand when lots of people arrive home from work at the same time and plug their cars in to charge them?
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Again, this is not correct. The capacity of the grid absolutely has been considered. The national grid is bang up for it and says they will be able to cope, capacity won't be a problem.

Can the UK grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars? | National Grid Group

As electric vehicles (EVs) become more widespread, this is one of the most common questions we’re asked. Find out what we're doing to make sure we're ready.
www.nationalgrid.com www.nationalgrid.com

This is the National Grid saying this and its their responsibility. We really don't need to be worrying ourselves with this. I really think this is another example of barriers being erected for the sake of it. This is what I mean by perceived barriers, they are not real and being erected out of opposition to change as much as anything.

ETA: Beaten to it. Pah!
 
I do understand people have a very special attachment to their cars and here in the UK its probably on a different level to some other countries. They are much more than a means of transport but no one is coming to steal them away and scrap them against wishes, well not for a long time yet.

Should the ICE car ban actually happen in 2030 as planned then it is only on new car sales. All the existing ICE cars will still be on the road for years to come. Personally I think there will always be a place for ICE cars on the classic car scene and motorsports. I can't ever see there being an outright ban, not in my lifetime anyway.

ETA: And of course there will be unintended bad consequences of the switch to EV's, there always is but the status quo isn't a great option either.
 
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Teaboy said:
I do understand people have a very special attachment to their cars and here in the UK its probably on a different level to some other countries. They are much more than a means of transport but no one is coming to steal them away and scrap them against wishes, well not for a long time yet.

Should the ICE car ban actually happen in 2030 as planned then it is only on new car sales. All the existing ICE cars will still be on the road for years to come. Personally I think there will always be a place for ICE cars on the classic car scene and motorsports. I can't ever see there being an outright ban, not in my lifetime anyway.
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I basically have petrol in my blood. My father owned a garage so I've been closely involved with cars since I was very small. I first drove a car as soon as I could reach the pedals. I've been involved with the old car movement all my life. I can't remember the first old car event I went to but my first London to Brighton Veteran Car run was when I was seven. I love cars and driving them but I've accepted that fossil fuels cannot be used to power day to day transport anymore. I hope there'll always be a place for older cars and I'm sure there are enough dedicated enthusiasts to find a way to keep them running.

Incidentally, here's one of my favourite old cars and, it's an EV! :D

 
Winot said:
They still use petrol.
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For city driving they were brilliant. Full EV mode as I rarely drove > 30km.
Long journeys used petrol plus EV.

I loved the hybrid. I only filled the tank once a month..sometimes a tank lasted 5 weeks.

Given the choice I would opt for a hybrd over full electric.
 
Sugar Kane said:
For city driving they were brilliant. Full EV mode as I rarely drove > 30km.
Long journeys used petrol plus EV.

I loved the hybrid. I only filled the tank once a month..sometimes a tank lasted 5 weeks.

Given the choice I would opt for a hybrd over full electric.
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I owned a Prius for 15 years - no judgement here.
 
Winot said:
I owned a Prius for 15 years - no judgement here.
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Yeah, same here. I had a hybrid for a few years. They are decent city cars and 1m Uber drivers can't be wrong.

They're just not an EV and henceforth will be banished from this thread.
 
Teaboy said:
Yeah, same here. I had a hybrid for a few years. They are decent city cars and 1m Uber drivers can't be wrong.

They're just not an EV and henceforth will be banished from this thread.
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Actually. Driven under 30km they ARE and EV

Mine had an EV mode button. Which I always assumed meant I had enough EV if I ran out of petrol to drive me 30 km.
 
hash tag said:
Could we cope with a huge surge in demand when lots of people arrive home from work at the same time and plug their cars in to charge them?
Click to expand...
If you're driving to work it makes sense to charge it at work. That way we can solve the "what are we going to do with all the extra power from solar during the day" problem along with the "where will all the extra electricity for EVs come from" problem.
 
Sugar Kane said:
Actually. Driven under 30km they ARE and EV

Mine had an EV mode button. Which I always assumed meant I had enough EV if I ran out of petrol to drive me 30 km.
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But the electricity is being generated by burning petrol just as every battery in every ICE car is. For it to be a proper EV it would need to be able to operate independently of an internal combustion engine which it can't but EV's and to a lesser degree PHEV's can. I know from experience that the engine does quite often run at slow speeds because the battery needs recharging. They still have all the emissions that come with every ICE car they are just a bit better then most.

Like I say I have no beef with them and liked mine but they are still ICE cars and it won't be that long before the last one rolls of the production line, for the UK anyway. I don't know what plans other country's have regarding phasing out ICE cars.
 
Teaboy said:
And I'm sure the government have traded in all their Range Rovers and Jags for electric versions. It would be very unlike this Government to be hypocritical.
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I'm fairly certain Charlie had some of his cars converted to electric many years ago.
 
The heart of an environmentally friendly car...
180416120628-cobalt-mining-kids-river-780x439-1.jpg
 
Leafster said:
No, it doesn't make it OK but the child mining thing has been used over and over again to suggest EVs are bad so I'm just pointing out the oil industry are just as responsible for the exploitation.
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I don't think the oil industry is pretending to be a planet saving industry.
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But, the oil industry has come out with a lot of greenwashing over the last few years, especially shell n BP.
 
hash tag said:
But, the oil industry has come out with a lot of greenwashing over the last few years, especially shell n BP.
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I think we all accept that the oil industry is destructive and full of lying scum. It just riles me a little that too many EV owners try to pretend that their 'green' vehicles are planet friendly, when, in fact, they're little better than an IC engined car, especially so in countries using mostly fossil fuelled power stations.
 
Saul Goodman said:
I think we all accept that the oil industry is destructive and full of lying scum. It just riles me a little that too many EV owners try to pretend that their 'green' vehicles are planet friendly, when, in fact, they're little better than an IC engined car, especially so in countries using mostly fossil fuelled power stations.
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OK. I agree with you that EV's are not a panacea, and are always going to be environmentally damaging, though they are significantly better than an ICE.

So what's your solution?
 
lazythursday said:
OK. I agree with you that EV's are not a panacea, and are always going to be environmentally damaging, though they are significantly better than an ICE.

So what's your solution?
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Solution to what? Almost 80% of EV owners also own at least one fossil fuel powered vehicle. How can that be a good thing? All of those resources used to allow people to greenwash themselves?
My solution? I wasn't looking for one but if I was I'd probably introduce a mandatory 5 year minimum ownership of any new car. But like I said, I'm not looking for a solution to cars. I'd start at the top, then work down as necessary, rather than assume the consumer can do anything to affect climate change, because they can't.
 
Saul Goodman said:
Solution to what? Almost 80% of EV owners also own at least one fossil fuel powered vehicle. How can that be a good thing? All of those resources used to allow people to greenwash themselves?
My solution? I wasn't looking for one but if I was I'd probably introduce a mandatory 5 year minimum ownership of any new car. But like I said, I'm not looking for a solution to cars. I'd start at the top, then work down as necessary, rather than assume the consumer can do anything to affect climate change, because they can't.
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I don't really understand that. Transport is about 25% of our carbon emissions, so we can't ignore cars - though yes this needs to be done at the regulatory level not browbeating consumers to do the right thing.

EVs aren't perfect. ICE vehicles are far far worse. Solution = a future where there is a lot less personal ownership of cars. What is the alternative?
 
lazythursday said:
I don't really understand that. Transport is about 25% of our carbon emissions, so we can't ignore cars - though yes this needs to be done at the regulatory level not browbeating consumers to do the right thing.

EVs aren't perfect. ICE vehicles are far far worse. Solution = a future where there is a lot less personal ownership of cars. What is the alternative?
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What percentage of that 25% is private cars? And what would that percentage drop to if all private cars were electric?
 
Saul Goodman said:
What percentage of that 25% is private cars? And what would that percentage drop to if all private cars were electric?
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It's actually 27%. Around 68% of that is private cars. If all electric cars were electric that would be a vastly lower percentage (as the carbon still emitted is now associated with the electricity generation sector rather than transport).

There are credible plans to have the electricity generation sector pretty much fully clean energy by 2035.

The difficulty is making the transition happen quickly enough - if too many ICE vehicles stay on the road for too long we will blow our carbon budget under the Paris Agreement. Analysis of this suggests the only way we don't blow that carbon budget is reduction of private vehicle passenger miles at the same time.

Probably won't happen and we will not meet our obligations. But there isn't a clear alternative that allows ICE cars to be used indefinitely.
 
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