Electric cars

[BigTom]

beesonthewhatnow has consistently said the EVs are not the answer to anything, and he's right, all the issues of private car ownership clogging the streets remain and the manufacture and charging is so bad for the planet that the CO2 released by ICE cars pales. What he and Rowan fail to appreciate is that EV's give the owners a sense of smug-superiority and general air of planet saviours. If you get a big Audi one you can look down on people for not being as green as you and for being hopeless proles at the same time, it's a win-win.

This simply isn't true- the lifetime emissions for an EV are vastly less than ICE, and will fall further as we decarbonise the grid.

But the ban on all new build ICE vehicles by 2030 or even 2035 is looking increasingly unworkable, and actually more environmentally damaging than a longer transition.

Why do you say that? We're up to 15% EV sales last year, there's 7 more years to go, lots of manufacturers adding new lines/increasing production - what's the barrier you see? Why would it be more environmentally damaging than a longer transition?

 

[hash tag]

What would be the environmental impact of scrapping a serviceable car simply to swop to an EV. How much of an older car is recyclable, how much energy will be used in the recycling process and how much will go to landfill or be destroyed somewhere.

Admittedly it effects EVs as well as ices....I saw a programme recently in which the manufacturers test the part of a car with a view to them last just 10 years. How inefficient and what a waste of materials and resources that it.

 

[BigTom]

What would be the environmental impact of scrapping a serviceable car simply to swop to an EV. How much of an older car is recyclable, how much energy will be used in the recycling process and how much will go to landfill or be destroyed somewhere.

Admittedly it effects EVs as well as ices....I saw a programme recently in which the manufacturers test the part of a car with a view to them last just 10 years. How inefficient and what a waste of materials and resources that it.

Why would the ban on new ICE sales affect the rate of people buying new cars?

I don't see any reason to think serviceable cars will be scrapped any more than they are now.

If you get an EV for environmental reasons and your existing car is serviceable, you'll sell it, not scrap it.

 

[hash tag]

Why would the ban on new ICE sales affect the rate of people buying new cars?

I don't see any reason to think serviceable cars will be scrapped any more than they are now.

If you get an EV for environmental reasons and your existing car is serviceable, you'll sell it, not scrap it.

The ban of buying ICE's might slow the rate of people buying new cars due to the expense of EV's. An affordable EV must be £30,000/£35,000. But I don't see the banning of ICE's will generally effect the rate of people buying new cars.
I don't agree with the scrapping of ICE's in favour of EV's as I believe it will cost more environmentally than it is worth.
Politician's are encouraging people to scrap ICE's in favour of EV's...scrappage scheme, ULEZ etc.

 

[Elpenor]

Having run the numbers I am more likely to stop owning a car than buy an electric car.

 

[Leafster]

The ban of buying ICE's might slow the rate of people buying new cars due to the expense of EV's. An affordable EV must be £30,000/£35,000. But I don't see the banning of ICE's will generally effect the rate of people buying new cars.
I don't agree with the scrapping of ICE's in favour of EV's as I believe it will cost more environmentally than it is worth.
Politician's are encouraging people to scrap ICE's in favour of EV's...scrappage scheme, ULEZ etc.

I think the view is that there will be price parity between new EVs and ICEs before the ban on the sale of new ICEs. Some analysts think this should be around 2025.

I agree, scrappage schemes risk useable cars being junked for no good reason. Instead they should reinstate grants to buy new EVs. I know some had argued the reason for there being grants previously was because EVs cost more than ICEs but if you want to encourage uptake you should do it in a positive way. Perhaps the grants should be restricted to smaller cars only (No SUVs!)

What is most likely to reduce the feasibility of the ban on new ICEs is the lack of charging infrastructure.

 

[Leafster]

On the subject of charging infrastructure, I've seen two tweets today from my local council as it's 'Clean Air Day' about initiatives they are trying to implement.

The first is a trial to encourage those without off-street parking take up an offer for a pavement gulley or an on pavement charger. Electric vehicles and our on-street chargepoint rollout

They do admit that either option won't guarantee you can park outside your house but the pavement charger appears to be shareable with neighbours with a system to enable accurate billing. The one thing they don't seem to have covered is pavement parking and in narrow roads that might make the pavement chargers vulnerable to damage from cars driving into them.

The other is a scheme for residents to suggest locations for communal charging. The Surrey EV Chargepoint Interactive Map

Other councils may have something similar so anyone wanting to influence where local charging facilities might be could have their say.

 

[hash tag]

I guess a few people could be charging their EVs at work, so free charging for them which is a great incentive to use a car to commute. People do it at my place, but, I believe it is theft. Also it is not a disincentive to car use. In the last year, at least 5 of us in my small department, have partially or totally given up cars to commute; some now use trains or buses whereas I will walk or run.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I’m

This simply isn't true- the lifetime emissions for an EV are vastly less than ICE, and will fall further as we decarbonise the grid.

Well, in that case I will adopt an air of moral superiority once the new car arrives as I'll be greener than the Jolly Green Giant. They have brought the delivery date forward, but had to knock them back on that as I'm popping to the US for the weekend that week...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

On the subject of charging infrastructure, I've seen two tweets today from my local council as it's 'Clean Air Day' about initiatives they are trying to implement.

The first is a trial to encourage those without off-street parking take up an offer for a pavement gulley or an on pavement charger. Electric vehicles and our on-street chargepoint rollout

They do admit that either option won't guarantee you can park outside your house but the pavement charger appears to be shareable with neighbours with a system to enable accurate billing. The one thing they don't seem to have covered is pavement parking and in narrow roads that might make the pavement chargers vulnerable to damage from cars driving into them.

The other is a scheme for residents to suggest locations for communal charging. The Surrey EV Chargepoint Interactive Map

Other councils may have something similar so anyone wanting to influence where local charging facilities might be could have their say.

They put three chargers in (6 points) in a road near me last year, have never seen a car charging on them, and there's no special paint been laid down, so anyone can park in front of them for as long as they like, so you can't get to them even if you did want to use the sodding things.

 

[Leafster]

They put three chargers in (6 points) in a road near me last year, have never seen a car charging on them, and there's no special paint been laid down, so anyone can park in front of them for as long as they like, so you can't get to them even if you did want to use the sodding things.

The only public charge points around here seem to be at the petrol stations. My nearest one is at the Little Waitrose and Zap Maps tells be someone used it a couple of hours ago.

 

[T & P]

Well, in that case I will adopt an air of moral superiority once the new car arrives as I'll be greener than the Jolly Green Giant. They have brought the delivery date forward, but had to knock them back on that as I'm popping to the US for the weekend that week...

Have them deliver it at mine and I will look after it until your return

 

[BigTom]

I’m


Well, in that case I will adopt an air of moral superiority once the new car arrives as I'll be greener than the Jolly Green Giant. They have brought the delivery date forward, but had to knock them back on that as I'm popping to the US for the weekend that week...

You need to drive something like 50,000 miles* before you even out the larger CO2 cost of production, so make sure you use it a lot for the most environmental savings!
*not looking up the actual estimated figure for a tongue in cheek post.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The only public charge points around here seem to be at the petrol stations. My nearest one is at the Little Waitrose and Zap Maps tells be someone used it a couple of hours ago.

The PlugShare app shows them all and yeah, not many near you at all!

 

[T & P]

Are there any studies out there stating the environmental footprint difference between charging an EV car with electricity generated from fossil fuels and that produced from renewable sources? There are several lampposts around my neck of the woods that have been fitted with car charging sockets, but fuck knows where Lambeth Council gets its electricity from…

 

[DownwardDog]

Are there any studies out there stating the environmental footprint difference between charging an EV car with electricity generated from fossil fuels and that produced from renewable sources? There are several lampposts around my neck of the woods that have been fitted with car charging sockets, but fuck knows where Lambeth Council gets its electricity from…

Harry (of Harry's Garage) did a video on it. Due to the vast economies of scale it's always more efficient (from both energy and emissions persepectives) to use grid electricity than to burn the hydrocarbons yourself to create energy in a special little compartment inside your car.

 

[BigTom]

Are there any studies out there stating the environmental footprint difference between charging an EV car with electricity generated from fossil fuels and that produced from renewable sources? There are several lampposts around my neck of the woods that have been fitted with car charging sockets, but fuck knows where Lambeth Council gets its electricity from…

There's ones I've seen comparing lifecycle emissions which give a range of miles to parity with ICE depending on the mix on the grid.

Even with a 100% coal grid, EVs still have lower lifetime emissions.

The UK grid is pretty decent with almost no coal, and an increasing amount of renewables.
Last 12 months was about 40% gas, 1% coal 15% nuclear, 34% wind/solar, 5% biomass, 1% hydro, rest imports.

 

[weltweit]

We have charging points at work now. Or at least we will have once they are wired in. No one has an electric car yet, but they are thinking ahead I suppose. Mind you we also have bike racks and no one comes to work on a bike either.

 

[weltweit]

I saw on twitter a piece on an EV that had a massive range on full charge.

Unfortunately I didn't save the tweet because I am sure it would have been interesting for this thread.

I think I recall that it has solid state batteries.

Can't remember more.

Battery technology is going to move forwards over time.

 

[T & P]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm in love with this car

If only I had £89,995 to spare, I'd join the electric car revolution right now

 

[BigTom]

I saw on twitter a piece on an EV that had a massive range on full charge.

Unfortunately I didn't save the tweet because I am sure it would have been interesting for this thread.

I think I recall that it has solid state batteries.

Can't remember more.

Battery technology is going to move forwards over time.

Was it the Toyota thing?

Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough could offer +900 miles driving range

At a recently held technical briefing, Toyota revealed plans for several new technologies, including next-gen EV batteries, aerodynamic drag reduction,...

electrek.co

After discovering a breakthrough, Toyota says it aims to offer solid-state state EV batteries that could potentially offer over 900 miles driving range.

 

[weltweit]

Was it the Toyota thing?

Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough could offer +900 miles driving range

At a recently held technical briefing, Toyota revealed plans for several new technologies, including next-gen EV batteries, aerodynamic drag reduction,...

electrek.co

Hi BigTom, it actually wasn't Toyota but it was that sort of thing.

But exciting times if Toyota are doing that, could make EVs much more attractive, though I expect at first it will probably come on premium models.

I think Toyota are the largest car maker there is so this development is serious and very welcome.

 

[weltweit]

Interesting news on EVs, Foxconn is making a move to EVs to be built at plants around the world

iPhone maker Foxconn to switch to cars as US-China ties sour

Foxconn, which makes over half of the world’s Apple products, seeks its next big growth driver.

www.bbc.co.uk

They also mention that the Taiwan issue is a potential problem for their business.

I see that myself. If China invades Taiwan there will be sanctions and European and US businesses won't be able to get their Chinese and Taiwanese made products anymore. It could be carnage for western industry.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm in love with this car

If only I had £89,995 to spare, I'd join the electric car revolution right now

If only I didn't have kids, a dog and a mother in law who's wheelchair bound...

 

[BristolEcho]

So I need to learn to drive due to my partner's illness. We used to get around on our electric bikes fine and used public transport, but since she's been ill we've lost that independence and can't travel anywhere far without getting a lift. This is especially difficult when seeing her family.

I've got to test standard before in a manual car, but I'm really tempted to just get an automatic licence and then go down the second hand route and get an electric car. Once my Dad switched to Auto he loved it and I'm all about making everything easier for myself especially as I'm a reluctant driver anyway.

I'm quite good with tech and electronics, and fucking shit with mechanical stuff so that's a big plus. A lot of my day to day travelling will be around the city for work (community worker) and I'd like to use my bike still anyway so a full charge should last me a while and will be cheaper than petrol. Can charge it at my Mum's from time to time and otherwise can just use the public spots.

I can claim the milage back too so "topping up" probably won't cost me much.

I think in my price range it's probably going to be an older Zoe, or Leaf - 2013 onwards.

It seems my initial outlay may be more, but after that it should be cheaper. RAC seem to think that due to their being leas parts there is less that can go wrong though it can be pricey when they do go wrong.

Leases on all cars seem a bit of a scam really. Though the idea of having a new car and not worrying about warranty, battery wear, and having to go through the process of buying and selling a car does seem tempting. Not sure it's worth the price though - Renault Zoe brand new was quoted at £270 per month and then I'd have to pay insurance on top. £12k for the full term!

Now I've written it down I don't know if going down the automatic and committing to EV is a good idea, but I also need to be motivated to learn to drive and I could actually get excited about it rather than going down the manual and petrol route.

 

[BigTom]

So I need to learn to drive due to my partner's illness. We used to get around on our electric bikes fine and used public transport, but since she's been ill we've lost that independence and can't travel anywhere far without getting a lift. This is especially difficult when seeing her family.

I've got to test standard before in a manual car, but I'm really tempted to just get an automatic licence and then go down the second hand route and get an electric car. Once my Dad switched to Auto he loved it and I'm all about making everything easier for myself especially as I'm a reluctant driver anyway.

I'm quite good with tech and electronics, and fucking shit with mechanical stuff so that's a big plus. A lot of my day to day travelling will be around the city for work (community worker) and I'd like to use my bike still anyway so a full charge should last me a while and will be cheaper than petrol. Can charge it at my Mum's from time to time and otherwise can just use the public spots.

I can claim the milage back too so "topping up" probably won't cost me much.

I think in my price range it's probably going to be an older Zoe, or Leaf - 2013 onwards.

It seems my initial outlay may be more, but after that it should be cheaper. RAC seem to think that due to their being leas parts there is less that can go wrong though it can be pricey when they do go wrong.

Leases on all cars seem a bit of a scam really. Though the idea of having a new car and not worrying about warranty, battery wear, and having to go through the process of buying and selling a car does seem tempting. Not sure it's worth the price though - Renault Zoe brand new was quoted at £270 per month and then I'd have to pay insurance on top. £12k for the full term!

Now I've written it down I don't know if going down the automatic and committing to EV is a good idea, but I also need to be motivated to learn to drive and I could actually get excited about it rather than going down the manual and petrol route.

Be careful about gen 1 leaf as they had air cooled batteries which did not work out well (water cooling is needed).

It's still going to be best to learn on a manual if you can just because of the flexibility it gives you, but autos are great these days and I wouldn't go back to a manual by choice so I don't think it's a big thing really whether you end up with a petrol or electric auto.

How often do you think you'll use the car? Have you had a look at car clubs/hire cars to see if that would be cheaper/better for you than buying?

 

[BristolEcho]

Be careful about gen 1 leaf as they had air cooled batteries which did not work out well (water cooling is needed).

It's still going to be best to learn on a manual if you can just because of the flexibility it gives you, but autos are great these days and I wouldn't go back to a manual by choice so I don't think it's a big thing really whether you end up with a petrol or electric auto.

How often do you think you'll use the car? Have you had a look at car clubs/hire cars to see if that would be cheaper/better for you than buying?

Thanks Big Tom! Yeah I read about the gen 1 leaf after I posted that - I was looking at 2nd gens I think. I wonder it might be worth waiting a few more years when some of the newer models are 2nd hand as the choice should increase then.

Yeah I sort of changed my mind last night regarding manual/auto. There are some really big pros for to Auto for me, but actually I know I can do manual and then at least I have the option of both. I can get my automatic electric car at a later date.

I work in the community and have to trave from sites to addresses and back so potentially I could use it every day, but ideally I'd still cycle a fair bit where I can as I really enjoy it. Did consider the rent option - I think the drive for my girlfriends family is 90 miles and includes motorway and busy a roads so think I'd need to be driving semi regular to build my confidence.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Let the hate flow...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

:vomit emoji:

 

[MickiQ]

Let the hate flow...

View attachment 381072View attachment 381073View attachment 381074

That's your new wankpanzer is it? I notice you've forked out the extra for them not to put badges on the arse. I gather from the charging point in picture 2 it's either a hybrid or an all leccy one