EDL watch

[krink]

'counter-culture'??? hmmm

honestly, you'll have to ask a question as I don't understand these 'hmmmms' and 'you whats' please just be direct thanks.

 

[belboid]

I think the idea that we need a 'counter-cultural' movement to beat fascism is tosh. Also, the idea that there is no left (or indeed 'counter-culture') in the north to be equally tosh.

In the majority of the north the EDL are nothing, and darent show there faces. So they could get 1/3 of the turnout they managed to get in Rotherham 18 months ago, and they assaulted some people later - those are signs of weakness, not strength. Newcastle and the north-east seems to be slightly different, but Newcastle and the north-east isnt 'the north'

 

[J Ed]

What does counter culture mean in this context anyway? Students in those gap year trousers juggling in the park and smoking roll ups? There are plenty of those in Sheffield anyway, I'm not sure it's helping one way or the other.

 

[SpackleFrog]

apparently:
Britain First's goon Mark Carlton (real name Johnson) sparked off a brawl in the Howard pub in Sheffield after Rotherham demo was met with a bottle to the face. There were 15 - 20 EDL fighting about 10 Antifascists.
2 comrades were sent to hospital with 3 who had minor injuries.
4 EDL were injured with 2 in hospital and 2 with minor injuries.

I heard more but I heard it from the anarcho-kids so they may have embellished. I know of definitely 2 people who went to hospital.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Its Kevin Scott

Who is Kevin Scott? Why is he so interested in my incisive analysis?

 

[SpackleFrog]

honestly, you'll have to ask a question as I don't understand these 'hmmmms' and 'you whats' please just be direct thanks.

The "you what" was an opportunity for you to edit what you said and revise your conflation of 'counter-culture' (WTF is counter-culture?) with the left. As well as an opportunity for you to take back your bonkers assertion that there is a left in Bristol but not in Sheffield or Leeds. What do you think about the excellent anti-bedroom tax campaign in Barnsley for example? Is that nothing to do with the left because the people involved with it don't like the right kind of grimestep dubhouse or whatever the kids are dancing to these days?

 

[Corax]

Who is Kevin Scott? Why is he so interested in my incisive analysis?

Cillit Bang bloke

 

[chilango]

Historically the North thing just isn't true.

Manchester was for at least a couple of generations a complete no-go zone for the Fash and to be at the heart of the EF! stuff.Leeds had enough of a scene to attract all kinds spook shenanigans. Liverpool had all the stuff built around the dockers and of course all it's Trot councillors.

Now the mill towns huddled in the slopes of Pennines were a different matter but were still contested.

The Fash were most open in South Wales and in E London.

Things no doubt have changed, but I don't imagine there's a huge discrepancy between the decline of the Left in Mcr and in Bristol for eg. Oddly, the place I've seen a bonehead openly walking streets on recent times was Bristol City Centre. And the only place I've seen an EdL presence is Reading.


So, a bit of a red herring this North - South anti fascist divide ime.

 

[Kev Scott LTJ]

Who is Kevin Scott? Why is he so interested in my incisive analysis?

Ex NF / BNP ..........spent many a Saturday standing around in Sunderland town centre, with one pimply yoof, one old geezer and a dog, trying to hand out racist shite.
After a few failed attempts electorally, and being bollocked by B&Q for being a racist numptie he set himself up as 'civil liberty' which is allegedly a front for raising money for the BNP in the states.... or was........

 

[Dogsauce]

there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a left/counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no left/counter-culture up here

Bradford 1in12? Manchester squat scene? Dirty hippies in Hebden bridge?

 

[framed]

Bradford 1in12? Manchester squat scene? Dirty hippies in Hebden bridge?

Jumpers for goalposts?

 

[Citizen66]

I think the idea that we need a 'counter-cultural' movement to beat fascism is tosh. Also, the idea that there is no left (or indeed 'counter-culture') in the north to be equally tosh.

In the majority of the north the EDL are nothing, and darent show there faces. So they could get 1/3 of the turnout they managed to get in Rotherham 18 months ago, and they assaulted some people later - those are signs of weakness, not strength. Newcastle and the north-east seems to be slightly different, but Newcastle and the north-east isnt 'the north'

Krink meant the North East so fuck off passing comment unless it's from experience.

Clue: people in the NE mean the NE when they say 'the north'. Not Sheffield which is the Midlands.

 

[Citizen66]

the EDL has had many fascists in it but is not a true fascist organisation. they have no policies except 'ban muslamics.'

So you know what a fascist is better than I. Your approach is completely wrong though. Misguided. These organisations are split into two groups. Seasoned fascists and the disenfranchised working class. The former only understand a boot in the head whilst the latter are more susceptible to persuasive dialogue. But that involves actually talking to them and not tarring them all with the same brush whilst standing shoulder to shoulder with Islamist cunts who'd have your sister's clit cut out given half the chance/

 

[free spirit]

my original sentence was not complete, here it is again. I can't prove there is no left and/or counter-culture as I don't know how to prove something doesn't exist.

there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a left/counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no left/counter-culture up here

have you ever been to the north?

G8 campsite in stirling had areas run by different local groups, from memory the main groups were Manc, Leeds, Newcastle, Lancaster, Nottingham, Cardiff, Bristol.

Newcastle green Festival's run for 20 years, with 20,000 attending at the peak, Durham miners gala has 50,000 or so out each year.

Though I'm a lot out of date due to getting a bit narked with it all a few years back.

 

[Citizen66]

Durham miners gala has 50,000 or so out each year.

You think that even means 'the left'?

 

[free spirit]

One thing to be wary of with the newcastle demo and whatever counter demo there is, is that last time the self proclaimed leaders of the newcastle UAF, or whatever it's called, prevented more radical elements being involved in the organising in advance, then actually had about a dozen of them arrested for daring to attend their demo.

Fuck that, fuck them, no fucking way I'd share a demonstration with cunts like that.

 

[Citizen66]

One thing to be wary of with the newcastle demo and whatever counter demo there is, is that last time the self proclaimed leaders of the newcastle UAF, or whatever it's called, prevented more radical elements being involved in the organising in advance, then actually had about a dozen of them arrested for daring to attend their demo.

Fuck that, fuck them, no fucking way I'd share a demonstration with cunts like that.

That was Newcastle Unites. You're singing to the choir. Why tell krink this stuff?

 

[free spirit]

That was Newcastle Unites. You're singing to the choir. Why tell krink this stuff?

I was informing the thread and anyone who might read it in case anyone reading it wasn't aware or had forgotten.

It may not seem like it, but people other than those who're posting regularly on it actually read these threads looking for info on demos etc. and they might not be as clued up as those who regularly contrbute to it.

on that note, lest it be forgotten... here's the statement issued at the time on behalf of the 14 who were arrested for the crime of wanting to join the main Newcastle Unites demo.

But in relation to krink's point, well it will undoubtedly have a significant impact on the turn out this time around, and Newcastle Unites will be pretty much dependent upon the police to defend their demo from the EDL, as anyone of a slightly more militant outlook is unlikely to be around to jump in if needed.

 

[Citizen66]

But I suspect Krink is more heavily involved in the organising of this event than Duncan or Dipu is. Having said that, the latter may be organising something.

 

[free spirit]

But I suspect Krink is more heavily involved in the organising of this event than Duncan or Dipu is. Having said that, the latter may be organising something.

possibly so, if so then I hope krink can knock some sense into those organising it as they seem to have managed to have alienated a lot of people last time.

 

[SpackleFrog]

anyway, there's three very short vids n youtube from the thing in sheffield pub. looks like very small group of anti-fash got thrown out of the pub by large gang of edl.

there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no 'left' up here, there is very very small numbers of anti-fash who will actually turn out but you're talking incredibly small numbers. meanwhile NF and EDL get 100 - 300 fighting types regularly with limited or no opposition at all.

the labour/uaf lot would rather grass antis up than work with them, and then there's the older 'veterans' who just slag the youngsters off. the vast majority of the population up here just don't care about politics at all but the minority who do, who are in the streets, who walk around without any hassle are the far right. don;'t know why they don't move that march for england to newcastle. they'd love that shit up here.

Quoting the original post for the benefit of Citizen66. It looks to me quite a lot like it means anywhere north of Bristol/London but if I've got that wrong Krink I apologise.

Even if I have, I think equating 'counter-culture' with antifascist militancy is boneheaded.

 

[gamerunknown]

So you know what a fascist is better than I. Your approach is completely wrong though. Misguided. These organisations are split into two groups. Seasoned fascists and the disenfranchised working class. The former only understand a boot in the head whilst the latter are more susceptible to persuasive dialogue. But that involves actually talking to them and not tarring them all with the same brush whilst standing shoulder to shoulder with Islamist cunts who'd have your sister's clit cut out given half the chance/

So, individual members of the EDL are just genuine members of the disenfranchised working class and Muslims working with anti-fascists advocate female genital mutilation?

 

[SpackleFrog]

At the risk of being pedantic, is FGM something Islamists are particularly keen on? It's more of an African rather than Islamic custom isn't it?

 

[free spirit]

Actually, I do see a bit more where Krink was coming from.

There are a hell of a lot of pissed off left wing, anti-facist, anti cuts types on my facebook wall from Newcastle, but this probably isn't manifesting itself on the streets at these demos.

The reasons for that IME are likely down to the closed nature of the groups who organise these protests, who've never really been interested in getting these people involved, at least that was always the impression I got. ETA - especially when there was any chance of their cosy leadership positions and methods being put in doubt.

 

[Citizen66]

So, individual members of the EDL are just genuine members of the disenfranchised working class and Muslims working with anti-fascists advocate female genital mutilation?

I said Islamist groups not Muslims. Fuck off.

 

[Citizen66]

possibly so, if so then I hope krink can knock some sense into those organising it as they seem to have managed to have alienated a lot of people last time.

I just said I don't know if it's the same people organising this.

 

[gamerunknown]

I said Islamist groups not Muslims. Fuck off.

So which Islamist groups advocating female genital mutilation is malatesta working with then?

 

[Sprocket.]

Thumbs up to all who attended the Rotherham anti EDL protest.
I remember a massive NF demo in Rotherham in 76. We were there with the Trade Unions anti NF group.
I got quite a bad thumping from the Front and a couple of sneaky thumps from coppers!
How many of the EDL were locals and how many traveled in on Saturday I wonder?

 

[Citizen66]

So which Islamist groups advocating female genital mutilation is malatesta working with then?

Why don't you ask him?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Thumbs up to all who attended the Rotherham anti EDL protest.
I remember a massive NF demo in Rotherham in 76. We were there with the Trade Unions anti NF group.
I got quite a bad thumping from the Front and a couple of sneaky thumps from coppers!
How many of the EDL were locals and how many traveled in on Saturday I wonder?

Looked like not that many locals to me - EDL from as far as Wales, Shropshire and Luton definitely.