EDL watch

[Sprocket.]

That's good to hear. I notice there is a South Yorkshire division pumping out bile on the net.
They always target the towns with large minority populations.
They also hide behind the anti extreme Islam facade.
TIs pants. Rascist is as racist does.
Intolerance will not be tolerated in the words of my old shop steward.

 

[sunnysidedown]

Krink meant the North East so fuck off passing comment unless it's from experience.

Clue: people in the NE mean the NE when they say 'the north'. Not Sheffield which is the Midlands.

Spot on, the midlands are called the midlands for a reason.

I was back in Newcastle last month for the first time in a long while, I was having a few beers with an old mate in town and we headed to one particular pub that was rammed with what appeared to be a load of goose steppers, it suddenly occurred to me that it was in fact St Georges day and the pub did indeed have it's share of goose steppers, along with fusileers, patriotic types, piss heads, boot boys, bikers, and a whole load of other fuckers, including me and my mate - I have to say I did feel a bit uneasy, with the possibility that we may have to prove our allegiance to someone, in some way, at some point, luckily we were both wearing Ben Sherman and it was $1.50 a pint (bombardier), plus they had a punk disco on upstairs... I think we had 3 pints before we fucked off.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Spot on, the midlands are called the midlands for a reason.

I was back in Newcastle last month for the first time in a long while, I was having a few beers with an old mate in town and we headed to one particular pub that was rammed with what appeared to be a load of goose steppers, it suddenly occurred to me that it was in fact St Georges day and the pub did indeed have it's share of goose steppers, along with fusileers, patriotic types, piss heads, boot boys, bikers, and a whole load of other fuckers, including me and my mate - I have to say I did feel a bit uneasy, with the possibility that we may have to prove our allegiance to someone, in some way, at some point, luckily we were both wearing Ben Sherman and it was $1.50 a pint (bombardier), plus they had a punk disco on upstairs... I think we had 3 pints before we fucked off.

Good story. Is there a point to it then? Are pubs like that somehow unique to the North East?

 

[Sprocket.]

Good story. Is there a point to it then? Are pubs like that somehow unique to the North East?

Only if you are wearing a shirt!

 

[sunnysidedown]

Good story. Is there a point to it then? Are pubs like that somehow unique to the North East?

Is there any point to the story? probably not
I do find Newcastle a funny place, full of contradictions. I wouldn't say it's any worse now than it's ever been previously with regards to actual *fascist* activity. The boozer I was in that I mentioned was decked out in red & white as it was St Georges day (you'll not find a pub in Newcastle displaying those colours any other time of the year!). And I would take a guess that the majority there were not actual fascists, although a bused in SWP/UAF contingent would no doubt think otherwise.
So no, pubs like that are certainly not unique to the north east, I've been to boozers around London, when I lived in Bethnal Green for example, that are pretty much the same (their penchant for seafood on the bar down south apart).

 

[krink]

I did mean the north east, sorry for the confusion. We do consider 'the north' to mean teesside, durham, wearside, tyneside and it's something i do/say without thinking. I'll reply to the comments in a while as I'm at work and I get spotted if I'm sitting typing for more than a few seconds. cheers.

 

[Fingers]

I think the idea that we need a 'counter-cultural' movement to beat fascism is tosh. Also, the idea that there is no left (or indeed 'counter-culture') in the north to be equally tosh.'

i would say mainly in Tyne area and West Yorkshire now. They are tiny elsewhere in the North

 

[SpackleFrog]

i would say mainly in Tyne area and West Yorkshire now. They are tiny elsewhere in the North

They never really existed in South Yorkshire until a year or so ago - I'm not saying it'll last but it seemed to catch on late here.

 

[Fingers]

They never really existed in South Yorkshire until a year or so ago - I'm not saying it'll last but it seemed to catch on late here.

Yeah that has been a bit of a increase though bear in mind, most of the morons involved in the Howard fracas were identified as being from West Yorkshire.

 

[krink]

just a quick 'for the record' i'm not directly involved with organising anything at the moment though i try to support the good things. i'm at a point in my life where i don't have the time or the energy for the politics of it all..though i'll probably get back on it when my kids have grown up a bit. cheers.

 

[gamerunknown]

Why don't you ask him?

You're the one making the accusations.

 

[Citizen66]

You're the one making the accusations.

The 'clit' thing was hyperbole. But that doesn't change the fact that he's happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamist groups who are 'fuck all' but obviously enough to hold hands with against fascism.

My enemy's enemy is my friend? Is there any actual politics here or just wearing masks and black t-shirts for the party of lollipop placard lifting behind the police picket?

As far as I'm concerned, both Islamism and Fascism can fuck off with equal strokes.

What you got to say about that then you daft twat?

 

[Citizen66]

just a quick 'for the record' i'm not directly involved with organising anything at the moment though i try to support the good things. i'm at a point in my life where i don't have the time or the energy for the politics of it all..though i'll probably get back on it when my kids have grown up a bit. cheers.

I meant NEA not you individually. Sorry for misrepresentation.

 

[frogwoman]

Its arguable that in the middle east islamists like the Muslim brotherhood play a similar role to the fash - smashing workers protests, etc

 

[Citizen66]

Its arguable that in the middle east islamists like the Muslim brotherhood play a similar role to the fash - smashing workers protests, etc

I've been arguing this (obviously badly) and I'm met with complete resistance to the idea by the book readers. I don't mind the book readers, but anyone who shares a platform with Islamists isn't an antifascist.

End of subject.

 

[frogwoman]

A lot of these Islamist groups have big similarities with fascism. Especially in Egypt etc - semi organized mobs of paramilitaries, obsession with law and order and 'purity', class collaboration, obsession wirh violence, belief in a glorious rebirth, etc

 

[Citizen66]

A lot of these Islamist groups have big similarities with fascism. Especially in Egypt etc - semi organized mobs of paramilitaries, obsession with law and order and 'purity', class collaboration, obsession wirh violence, belief in a glorious rebirth, etc

I've been arguing this!!! I love you froggy. Throw me a life jacket.

 

[frogwoman]

I've been arguing this!!! I love you froggy. Throw me a life jacket.

To be honest I haven't read enough about the topic to back up my points but if you look at the Egyptian events and elsewhere in the middle east, the targeting of Christians, Shi'a in pogroms and (occasionally) Jews, breaking up strikes, helping the police/army, obsession with 'unity of the ummah' etc, intimidation of female protesters,belief in the 'purification' and redemption and qualities of war and violence and obsession with morality and values, as well as the fact that with some of these groups they are helped along by street thugs etc, I'm not saying it is exactly the same as fascism but the similarities are very striking in some of the Islamist groups. There are different kinds of Islamism though obviously, but in many cases these groups fulfill the same political and economic function as fascism did/does in Europe

 

[frogwoman]

Its different from classical fascism because of the religious component, but 'clerical fascism' has appeared all over the place, I'm not sure why this should be so controversial and even if they're not strictly fascist they're not exactly friends if anti fascists are they!

 

[Pickman's model]

I've been arguing this!!! I love you froggy. Throw me a life jacket.

it's been nicked

 

[Citizen66]

To be honest I haven't read enough about the topic to back up my points but if you look at the Egyptian events and elsewhere in the middle east, the targeting of Christians, Shi'a in pogroms and (occasionally) Jews, breaking up strikes, helping the police/army, obsession with 'unity of the ummah' etc, intimidation of female protesters,belief in the 'purification' and redemption and qualities of war and violence and obsession with morality and values, as well as the fact that with some of these groups they are helped along by street thugs etc, I'm not saying it is exactly the same as fascism but the similarities are very striking in some of the Islamist groups. There are different kinds of Islamism though obviously, but in many cases these groups fulfill the same political and economic function as fascism did/does in Europe

I was arguing that their 'Nationalism' was Islam itself, or the Caliphate, and that their hatred of the Kafir - spelt almost identically to the Kaffir - is an indication that their politics is steeped in their bigotry. But the politics bores came along with their tape measures and proved me wrong.

 

[frogwoman]

I was arguing that their 'Nationalism' was Islam itself, or the Caliphate, and that their hatred of the Kafir - spelt almost identically to the Kaffir - is an indication their politics steeped in their bigotry. But the politics bores came along with their tape measures and proved me wrong.

No I think that in some cases at least you are right tbh. I think saying that it is always fascist is simplifying it a bit tho

 

[Citizen66]

No I think that in some cases at least you are right tbh. I think saying that it is always fascist is simplifying it a bit tho

I know Islamism is a broad church (mosque?) but the context was UK Islamist organisations - Al Muhajiroun or Islam4UK or whatever name it goes by nowadays. It's a state fucking asset anyway.

 

[frogwoman]

I know Islamism is a broad church (mosque?) but the context was UK Islamist organisations - Al Muhajiroun or Islam4UK or whatever name it goes by nowadays. It's a state fucking asset anyway.

Maybe. I don't know enough about them tbh.

 

[Citizen66]

Maybe. I don't know enough about them tbh.

Sharia harshness. Trots usually link arms with them. Yay to sexism and homophobia. They're a minority so mean fuck all. Apparently the EDL are too.

 

[Corax]

To be honest I haven't read enough about the topic to back up my points but if you look at the Egyptian events and elsewhere in the middle east, the targeting of Christians, Shi'a in pogroms and (occasionally) Jews, breaking up strikes, helping the police/army, obsession with 'unity of the ummah' etc, intimidation of female protesters,belief in the 'purification' and redemption and qualities of war and violence and obsession with morality and values, as well as the fact that with some of these groups they are helped along by street thugs etc, I'm not saying it is exactly the same as fascism but the similarities are very striking in some of the Islamist groups. There are different kinds of Islamism though obviously, but in many cases these groups fulfill the same political and economic function as fascism did/does in Europe

Interesting post froggie - leads me to ponder history of the catholic organisation in a similar light.

 

[malatesta32]

Britain’s Wildest Suppositions:
WRONG: ‘whilst standing shoulder to shoulder with Islamist cunts who'd have your sister's clit cut out given half the chance.’’ Who exactly would that be? On demos I’m usually stood with folk like Bishie, Fingers and Raknor.

WRONG: ‘But that doesn't change the fact that he's happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamist groups who are 'fuck all' but obviously enough to hold hands with against fascism.’

RIGHT: ‘So which Islamist groups advocating female genital mutilation is malatesta working with then?’

None! As an obvious anarchist all religious groups have an agenda I do not share.

 

[frogwoman]

Interesting post froggie - leads me to ponder history of the catholic organisation in a similar light.

Nah I'm not at all sure the Catholic Church as a whole even at the height of its power could be described as fascist although they and the Orthodox Church have worked with real fascists in the past. Fascism only started to appear in the late 19th/early 20th century, it was a reaction to the enlightenment (many of these Islamist groups can again be compared with it because they are reacting to changes in society that could not have taken place without 'modernity') and don't forget that for fascism you need a highly centralized organization, and the catholic church couldn't exercise that level of control over many of its members for much of its history. (The murders of Jews etc often took place at the initiative of locals and in some cases were explicitly condemned by the Pope and other high ranking members of the church - on more than one occasion the pope explicitly said that the blood libel was a myth, but the persecution carried on at a local level). In the time when the church was powerful there was also nothing like a state which we know today. And although the church may have ordered stuff it was up to kings, barons etc to carry most of it out, and they didn't/couldn't always do it, not having control over the territory. I don't think many of these popes were all powerful charismatic leaders like the fascist leaders were either.

In addition the kings and barons were mostly also just as powerful as the church in their own right tbh. This doesn't mean of course that they weren't often utter scum but I don't think they can really be called fascist at all.

 

[Corax]

Nah I'm not at all sure the Catholic Church as a whole even at the height of its power could be described as fascist although they and the Orthodox Church have worked with real fascists in the past. Fascism only started to appear in the late 19th/early 20th century, it was a reaction to the enlightenment (many of these Islamist groups can again be compared with it because they are reacting to changes in society that could not have taken place without 'modernity') and don't forget that for fascism you need a highly centralized organization, and the catholic church couldn't exercise that level of control over many of its members for much of its history. (The murders of Jews etc often took place at the initiative of locals and in some cases were explicitly condemned by the Pope and other high ranking members of the church - on more than one occasion the pope explicitly said that the blood libel was a myth, but the persecution carried on at a local level). In the time when the church was powerful there was also nothing like a state which we know today. And although the church may have ordered stuff it was up to kings, barons etc to carry most of it out, and they didn't/couldn't always do it, not having control over the territory. I don't think many of these popes were all powerful charismatic leaders like the fascist leaders were either.

In addition the kings and barons were mostly also just as powerful as the church in their own right tbh. This doesn't mean of course that they weren't often utter scum but I don't think they can really be called fascist at all.

You're much better versed in the definitions than me. It was inquisition times that came to mind.

 

[frogwoman]

You're much better versed in the definitions than me. It was inquisition times that came to mind.

Yeah I thought that might be what you were getting at. Its a good point to be honest, I don't know enough about that period. butchersapron might