EDL watch

[SpineyNorman]

Shall I fetch a child of 8?

 

[Corax]

You clearly haven't had much experience of children aged eight recently.

Whereas...

Aw shit... Nope, I guess there is a line...

 

[Citizen66]

I would never use the term Nazi lightly but I am not sure I agree that they are not a Nazi organisation.

Their leaders are middle class, they seem to hate unions and organised groups of workers, scapegoat a visible religious group with their rabid anti Islam propaganda (which spills over into anti asian hatred if my experiences in Woolwich - where I live- is anything to go by). They use racism and religion as a tool to divide people and also slate all the main political parties.

The only difference I see between them and the BNP is that the BNP have stood in elections and the EDL haven't.

They are more of a mobilising movement than a party and undoubtedly not everyone who identifies with them is a Nazi.

Like I said earlier ... I am not sure what I think so wanted to read what others think so cheers for taking the time to answer

National Socialism and fascism are two distinct political positions. Along with Nationalism they share many characteristics but that doesn't make any of them the other. It's like anarchism supports freedom of expression. So does Neo Liberalism. But that doesn't make David Cameron an anarchist.

 

[Corax]

National Socialism and fascism are two distinct political positions. Along with Nationalism they share many characteristics but that doesn't make any of them the other. It's like anarchism supports freedom of expression. So does Neo Liberalism. But that doesn't make David Cameron an anarchist.

Neatly put I have a feeling I'll quote that at some point.

 

[Citizen66]

And 'the edl' are a pressure group that contain people of many political persuasions. They're more like Occupy in that respect.

 

[frogwoman]

I think there could be good grounds to describe the EDL or elements of it anyway as a fascist organisation, for the reasons you mention.

They are not (all, or even mostly) Nazis though. Nazism is a very specific type of fascism.

 

[Citizen66]

Occupy is riddled with truthers but you wouldn't call occupy a 'truther group'. Anarchists are involved but it isn't an anarchist group either. It's a single issue umbrella org.

 

[Citizen66]

I think there could be good grounds to describe the EDL or elements of it anyway as a fascist organisation, for the reasons you mention.

They are not (all, or even mostly) Nazis though. Nazism is a very specific type of fascism.

I'd be inclined to agree if it wasn't for the 'alienated white working class' points that goes hand in hand with the edl. It certainly displays the characteristics of a fascist street movement; though the waters are muddied by those inlolved.

 

[frogwoman]

I'd be inclined to agree if it wasn't for the 'alienated white working class' points that goes hand in hand with the edl. It certainly displays the characteristicsmof a fascist street movement though; the waters are muddied by those inlolved.

yep. although the original fascist street movements also had a few white working class people involved, although perhaps not as many as the EDL

they're definitely not nazis though - as spiney said many of them are probably more attracted to zionism than national socialism.

there have been fascist movements (or movements that very strongly resemble fascism) in countries like Israel, India, Burma, etc - none of these are Nazis, doesn't mean they're not fascists but it's important to know what you're talking about when you discuss this stuff.

 

[Citizen66]

You know more than me about fascism froggie, but isn't one characteristic the marriage of the corporation and the state? Does that really describe the edl?

 

[comrade spurski]

Perhaps you should read eg the anatomy of fascism and also some stuff about church and king mobs who the edl more obviously resemble than the nsdap.

will try and find that to read ... cheers

 

[frogwoman]

You know more than me about fascism froggie, but isn't one characteristic the marriage of the corporation and the state? Does that really describe the edl?

I'm not sure mate? Probably not but I don't know what they've said about it, they seem to have had little to say about it?

some of their members certainly use anti-capitalist pro-"working class" rhetoric sometimes but as a whole, they don't seem to want to oppose capitalism? (not that that necessarily means anything)

to be honest tho corporatism appears in a lot of political forms, not just fascism- i think butchers linked to an interesting essay about it a while back

 

[frogwoman]

i'm not saying they definitely are fascists in the technical definition btw

 

[Corax]

Can an organisation whose membership don't tend to have any discernible political commonality beyond a single issue be categorised in this kind of manner?

It seems to me akin to trying to place a sports club on a political spectrum, or a troupe of morris dancers, or the regular commuters on the 10:32 from Bristol.

 

[Citizen66]

I'm not sure mate? Probably not but I don't know what they've said about it, they seem to have had little to say about it?

some of their members certainly use anti-capitalist pro-"working class" rhetoric sometimes but as a whole, they don't seem to want to oppose capitalism? (not that that necessarily means anything)

to be honest tho corporatism appears in a lot of political forms, not just fascism- i think butchers linked to an interesting essay about it a while back

Cheers. Yeah butchers posted up a pdf that I need to read but my pc has been poorly and is now sent away to be fixed and it won't download to my tablet.

I think it's very difficult to describe the edl as anything really. As it's an umbrella org. Certainly when members in boro were confronted I was reliably informed that they appeared scared (as dotty correctly identified) and confused as to who to blame rather than adherents to any particular ideology. But that may not be true for the other divisions.

 

[comrade spurski]

I think there could be good grounds to describe the EDL or elements of it anyway as a fascist organisation, for the reasons you mention.

They are not (all, or even mostly) Nazis though. Nazism is a very specific type of fascism.

that makes a lot of sense to me...thanks

 

[comrade spurski]

National Socialism and fascism are two distinct political positions. Along with Nationalism they share many characteristics but that doesn't make any of them the other. It's like anarchism supports freedom of expression. So does Neo Liberalism. But that doesn't make David Cameron an anarchist.

this also makes a lot of sense to me...cheers

 

[frogwoman]

Cheers. Yeah butchers posted up a pdf that I need to read but my pc has been poorly and is now sent away to be fixed and it won't download to my tablet.

I think it's very difficult to describe the edl as anything really. As it's an umbrella org. Certainly when members in boro were confronted I was reliably informed that they appeared scared (as dotty correctly identified) and confused as to who to blame rather than adherents to any particular ideology. But that may not be true for the other divisions.

I think it probably varies and the leadership maybe don't have the same level of central control as classical fascist organisations do/did

 

[Citizen66]

this also makes a lot of sense to me...cheers

Neo fucking Liberalism shares more characteristics with anarchism as time elapses. things that anarchists would trumpet such as gay rights, Neo Liberalism then gives a nod to in order to shrink opposition but keep the wheels in motion. What Neo Liberalism will never correct though is hierarchy. Which is pretty much at the root of most social and political problems. Complete kick in the teeth though when all the various minority groups turn their back on radical left thought as soon as Neo Liberalism tosses them a sardine.

 

[Citizen66]

Actually I've got Anatomy of Fascism on my tablet. Completely forgot about that.

 

[bamalama]

I think it's very difficult to describe the edl as anything really. As it's an umbrella org. Certainly when members in boro were confronted I was reliably informed that they appeared scared (as dotty correctly identified) and confused as to who to blame rather than adherents to any particular ideology. But that may not be true for the other divisions.

Actually I've got Anatomy of Fascism on my tablet. Completely forgot about that.

Aye that sort of makes sense to me,but we know they are definitely anti muslim,with a fair dollop of english nationalism-good ole blighty queen and country stuff.

edit:don't know why it's quoted that second bit

 

[DotCommunist]

Shall I fetch a child of 8?

from your cupboard

 

[DaveCinzano]

from your cupboard

This post was brought to you in association with Climax Productions

 

[SpineyNorman]

from your cupboard

It's a fucking pantry

 

[krink]

It's a fucking pantry

No, its a pedantry.

 

[DotCommunist]

lair

 

[Corax]

lair

You've got no reason to doubt his honesty!

 

[bignose1]

No, its a pedantry.

Cellar vie!!

 

[tony.c]

No, its a pedantry.

Wasn't Pickmans' though.

 

[J Ed]

Can an organisation whose membership don't tend to have any discernible political commonality beyond a single issue be categorised in this kind of manner?

It seems to me akin to trying to place a sports club on a political spectrum, or a troupe of morris dancers, or the regular commuters on the 10:32 from Bristol.

I don't know if we have to say that describing the political views of the EDL is like describing the political views of a sports club but I think that it's more useful to see the EDL as a broad based social movement rather than a party with tenets of faith.