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frogwoman said:
yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.

on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.
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I'd be a bit suprised if anything substantially academic has filtered through about the EDL just yet, but it will come sooner or later. I did have something detailed on BNP voters in the NW but it is quite a different set of characteristics, certainly in terms of age (BNP supporters tend to be older than EDL in my estimation)

NF was before my time and I was suprised to read that they were more like the C2 bracket. EDL are distinctly D in my estimation.

As much as we can slag them and the far right off, these are of course the people the left let get away, but Labour have to take a lot of the blame for that. Not that Labour are "left", but their move right created the vacuum that no one else filled till Johnny Nazi showed up.
 
frogwoman said:
yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.

on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.
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Talk on this later
 
Astounding snobbery here, which we had with the BNP and now the EDL. Our higher IQ will win out, which of course led to the political big brains bullying Griffin on QuestionTime with the consequences that followed.
 
butchersapron said:
What marks do you give yourself taffboy?
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At the moment I'm strictly E but have bobbled around from B-ish downwards for most of my adult life. It aint "marks" as well you know, just the sort of socio economic categorising that would turn up in the kind of research FW is on the lookout for.
 
butchersapron said:
1) How could it possibly be the inverse? What would that even look like?

2) No it's not you twat - you've just disagreed with me.

Both answer's good.
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The relationship could be inverse in that dim arguments can carry more social weight. That often happens or we wouldnt be in the economic quagmire we are in.
 
The39thStep said:
Astounding snobbery here, which we had with the BNP and now the EDL. Our higher IQ will win out, which of course led to the political big brains bullying Griffin on QuestionTime with the consequences that followed.
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I dont think any higher IQ will win out neccessarily. You only have to look at history to see that could be a folorn hope. The Griffin episode was worsened more by the hype than the intellectual snobbery, though looking back on it now it has been superceded by other events. The BNP have failed to capitalise on various things that could have gone their way. The EDL have picked up the slack to an extent, but are also comming up against some pretty serious limitations.
 
frogwoman said:
yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.

on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.
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Did you ever see a list of members and financiers of Mosleys New Party and later the BUF, titled aristocrats and big capitalists as well as a rake of MPs.
 
None iirc, that's the point - it didn't discredit the BNP or did anything to stop their growth. and that sort of establishmeent "anti-fascism" often has exactly the opposite effect to what's intended, for reasons that have been gone into countless times.
 
butchersapron said:
First off the logical hole you dug yourself into above, secondly, your snobby approach to humanity
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Don't see the hole sorry.

It stems, I'm pretty sure, from your correct statement that

"Intelligence has nothing to do with social weight"

I outlined how impact of ideas can be easily be in inverse proportion to how intelligent they were. Stupidity often triumphs in this world and I'd be suprised if you could strongly counter that arguement.

Note that although you have accused me of logical misfure while possibly having misfired yourself I haven't sunk to vapidly insulting you.

I am not snobby about individuals, I take as I find. But the generality of how the world is doesn't create a fantastic impression. Things such as fundmentalist capitalism and eco destruction dont just come from nowhere. The truth is often ugly. Better to be called a "snob" than pretend things are groovy when they clearly aint.

You are the one needlessly calling names and frequently casting judgement hither and thither. Spelling it correctly this time I spy a mote in thine eye.
 
It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.
 
Citizen66 said:
It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.
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Agreed, the left in britain, or what should have been the "street left" have buried themselves in the comfort of the University canteen never to be seen outside unless it's to recruit more studenty types for the small pond atmosphere of continual meetings and frantic activity with no end product. The State couldn't have invented them.

On this note, Can the right to work movement serve as a better outlet for frustrations among disenfranchised wwc youth who might otherwise be attracted to EDL activism?
 
Citizen66 said:
It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.
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guess which lefty website the article below appeared on:

David Cameron has turned his “big society” trick into an excuse to justify the mass privatisation of almost all remaining public services such as the Royal Mail, schools and even local authorities. In an article in the Daily Telegraph newspaper, Mr Cameron said that the transformation from a “big state” into a “big society” would mean that services could be transformed without the need for repeated legislation. The only areas he identified as exempt from privatisation were the national security services (the police, intelligence services and army) and the judiciary. These services were exempted only because not even they could possibly be made profitable in any sense of the word.

The pledge to create a “big society” has however now been revealed as nothing but an excuse to turn the rest of the civil service over to the profit-driven private sector. The claim that privatisation was lead to a better service is exactly the same “reasoning” provided by previous Tory and Labour regimes when the railways and household utilities were handed over to the private sector. Since then, without exception, service levels have declined and prices have increased.

In October last year, ConDem Business Secretary Vince Cable launched the Postal Services Bill which will privatise Royal Mail. At the time, Mr Cable said that private buyers will be allowed to own up to 90 percent of Royal Mail, while the Post Office may be mutualised. In addition, he made it clear that the government would not oppose a foreign company buying up the Royal Mail. The Dutch Post Office was one of the first to be privatised, and is a yardstick by which all such undertakings are measured.

According to an earlier report, privatisation in Holland led to the closure of nearly 90 percent of the country's post offices. In addition, complaints about the reliability of Holland's privatised post are widespread. The Dutch Post Office was also one of the first to adopt EU directives and allow new companies to compete in its postal market, a move which was supposed to increase competition and lead to better services. In reality, the complete opposite has occurred. New firms which pay far below the minimum wage have cherry-picked the most profitable routes, and have brought the Dutch Post Office’s finances to its knees.

There is no reason to think that the situation will be any different in Britain, and this is only the post office sector. It can only be speculated upon what will happen to schools and health services, to name but two. But at least Mr Cameron has finally come clean with what he manes by the “big society.”

Previously, the naïve might have thought that he meant that everyone would have to somehow “work together” to make society better. Now however, it is clear that what he actually intends is to sell the very last of the state assets in a privatised free-for-all which will make all previous privatisations seem like child’s play.
 
revlon said:
guess which lefty website the article below appeared on:

David Cameron has turned his “big society” trick into an excuse to justify the mass privatisation of almost all remaining public services such as the Royal Mail, schools and even local authorities. In an article in the Daily Telegraph newspaper, Mr Cameron said that the transformation from a “big state” into a “big society” would mean that services could be transformed without the need for repeated legislation. The only areas he identified as exempt from privatisation were the national security services (the police, intelligence services and army) and the judiciary. These services were exempted only because not even they could possibly be made profitable in any sense of the word.

The pledge to create a “big society” has however now been revealed as nothing but an excuse to turn the rest of the civil service over to the profit-driven private sector. The claim that privatisation was lead to a better service is exactly the same “reasoning” provided by previous Tory and Labour regimes when the railways and household utilities were handed over to the private sector. Since then, without exception, service levels have declined and prices have increased.

In October last year, ConDem Business Secretary Vince Cable launched the Postal Services Bill which will privatise Royal Mail. At the time, Mr Cable said that private buyers will be allowed to own up to 90 percent of Royal Mail, while the Post Office may be mutualised. In addition, he made it clear that the government would not oppose a foreign company buying up the Royal Mail. The Dutch Post Office was one of the first to be privatised, and is a yardstick by which all such undertakings are measured.

According to an earlier report, privatisation in Holland led to the closure of nearly 90 percent of the country's post offices. In addition, complaints about the reliability of Holland's privatised post are widespread. The Dutch Post Office was also one of the first to adopt EU directives and allow new companies to compete in its postal market, a move which was supposed to increase competition and lead to better services. In reality, the complete opposite has occurred. New firms which pay far below the minimum wage have cherry-picked the most profitable routes, and have brought the Dutch Post Office’s finances to its knees.

There is no reason to think that the situation will be any different in Britain, and this is only the post office sector. It can only be speculated upon what will happen to schools and health services, to name but two. But at least Mr Cameron has finally come clean with what he manes by the “big society.”

Previously, the naïve might have thought that he meant that everyone would have to somehow “work together” to make society better. Now however, it is clear that what he actually intends is to sell the very last of the state assets in a privatised free-for-all which will make all previous privatisations seem like child’s play.
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BNP knuckle draggers?
 
butchersapron said:
Fuck off then
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Guaranteed to win any argument is that line. Reduced to mysoginy and vapid insults at the drop ofa hat intcha? And why? because I said there is a lot wrong with the world and that humans should take some responsibility, and rather than speak to that you thought you'd sink into bollocks stereotyping of the opinions of a person you've never met.
 
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