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butchersapron said:
Got to say, even as putting a marker down this was poor. If this was supposed show the rest of the edl whose got bottle and and form a group to rally around then i think its going to do the opposite and make the inexperienced youtube hoolies who've never been in proper bother melt away.
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slow news day Butchers?
 
Looking at the EDL post quoted above (Alan Furniss) can I ask one more time: What the fuck is all the bad spelling, grammar and total lack of punctuation about with these people?
 
manny-p said:
I don't think you should give two fucks about their grammar. Its their politics which are the concern here.
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Of course their politics stink. But if I was advancing English patriotism I'd be sure to use the beautiful language of the same land to the best of my ability, and to improve upon that use if it was wanting. We are talking here about an absolutely exceptional degree of shit use here, below what would reasonably be acceptable at the start of secondary school. I think it serves a few purposes to deconstruct their dire linguistic skills. And it's piss funny to boot.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Of course their politics stink. But if I was advancing English patriotism I'd be sure to use the beautiful language of the same land to the best of my ability, and to improve upon that use if it was wanting. We are talking here about an absolutely exceptional degree of shit use here, below what would reasonably acceptable at the start of secondary school. I think it serves a few purposes to deconstruct their dire linguistic skills. And it's piss funny to boot.
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That's how you stopped hitler.
 
Red Storm said:
I really get tired of the mockery of the educational standards of racists. Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?
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aye same here, it's ok if you're doing a bit of winding-up, face to face it can even be funnier but on some of the anti-edl pages on the internet politics doesn't get a look in it is all personal insults...a lot of which could be just as easily directed at, say...me! for example; fat, ugly, poor, estate scum!:D
 
Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot. At least Butcher has some humour about it. Funny thing is Butch, that Hitler was linguistically adept, maybe that is your point.

It's not about "educational standards" Red Storm. Nor is it about class. Do I think their grammar, syntax, spelling etc. is below that of the average working class? Almost certainly yes, though their are exceptions. I have done a lot of teaching in my time and class is no special predictor of the ability of an adult to use full stops.

The predliction for caps-locks. The common allergy to nearly any punctuation made up for by an over use of exclamation marks. The hyperbole. The froth. It's funny as fuck. Perhaps laughing at it (as you point out there is a notable FB page dedicated to it, which is also very good from a general anti fascist pov) is a distraction from how horrible it all is. Perhaps it's that which I struggle to fathom - the blind hate, but I also have a small amount of potential sympathy for people so alienated, lost and duped.

Overall though, sympathy and understanding of lower educational attainment or whatever goes out the window when the hate comes in.

The politics of these people make them fair game for humour. People who extol the virtues of England and the English look stupid when they can't even master the basics of the language. Most immigrants I know have a better command of the written word, which again has bugger all to do with class.
 
Red Storm said:
I really get tired of the mockery of the educational standards of racists. Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?
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By the way, I hope no slur is intended here to imply that the "working" or "lumpen" classes are any kind of hotbed of racists or people without language skills.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot. At least Butcher has some humour about it. Funny thing is Butch, that Hitler was linguistically adept, maybe that is your point.

It's not about "educational standards" Red Storm. Nor is it about class. Do I think their grammar, syntax, spelling etc. is below that of the average working class? Almost certainly yes, though their are exceptions. I have done a lot of teaching in my time and class is no special predictor of the ability of an adult to use full stops.

The predliction for caps-locks. The common allergy to nearly any punctuation made up for by an over use of exclamation marks. The hyperbole. The froth. It's funny as fuck. Perhaps laughing at it (as you point out there is a notable FB page dedicated to it, which is also very good from a general anti fascist pov) is a distraction from how horrible it all is. Perhaps it's that which I struggle to fathom - the blind hate, but I also have a small amount of potential sympathy for people so alienated, lost and duped.

Overall though, sympathy and understanding of lower educational attainment or whatever goes out the window when the hate comes in.

The politics of these people make them fair game for humour. People who extol the virtues of England and the English look stupid when they can't even master the basics of the language. Most immigrants I know have a better command of the written word, which again has bugger all to do with class.
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See bold - how on earth is that "good from a general antifascist pov"? Jesus christ.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
By the way, I hope no slur is intended here to imply that the "working" or "lumpen" classes are any kind of hotbed of racists or people without language skills.
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Where do you think the BNP get their votes from? The working and lumpen classes are their constituency. EDIT: bad phrase to say consituency but I mean it's where they get most of their votes from.

If anything sneering at the literary abilities of the casual racists does nothing for the anti-fascist movement. What do you think they will think of you for laughing at their educational standard? 'Middle class prick' is what. Instead we should be trying to convert those that see race and nationality as the answer to their problems rather than class (and smash, where possible, the organisers of it). Being snooty will do anti-fascism no favours.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot. At least Butcher has some humour about it. Funny thing is Butch, that Hitler was linguistically adept, maybe that is your point.

It's not about "educational standards" Red Storm. Nor is it about class. Do I think their grammar, syntax, spelling etc. is below that of the average working class? Almost certainly yes, though their are exceptions. I have done a lot of teaching in my time and class is no special predictor of the ability of an adult to use full stops.

The predliction for caps-locks. The common allergy to nearly any punctuation made up for by an over use of exclamation marks. The hyperbole. The froth. It's funny as fuck. Perhaps laughing at it (as you point out there is a notable FB page dedicated to it, which is also very good from a general anti fascist pov) is a distraction from how horrible it all is. Perhaps it's that which I struggle to fathom - the blind hate, but I also have a small amount of potential sympathy for people so alienated, lost and duped.

Overall though, sympathy and understanding of lower educational attainment or whatever goes out the window when the hate comes in.

The politics of these people make them fair game for humour. People who extol the virtues of England and the English look stupid when they can't even master the basics of the language. Most immigrants I know have a better command of the written word, which again has bugger all to do with class.
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it's just not funny , at all , it's been pointed out / refferred to a 1000 times, and , Muslimic Rayguns aside, just -i-s- n-o-t- f-u-n-n-y.
 
malatesta32 said:
spiked piece on EDL somewhat overestimating their support and underestimating the fact the mr tommy has pissed a lot of people off and the infidels has seriously damaged them. oh and being humiliated in whitechapel didnt help did it?
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/reviewofbooks_preview/11909/
also, who is patrick hayes? he was on on bbc world talking about wiki thing today.
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Bit of a crap piece with lots of innacuracies.

He claims that the facebook page crashed when in fact what they are referring to was the first big hacking by ZHC. He says that the looseness of the facebook pages means that in all likelihood the "Occupy threat" that led to the arrests on Armistice Day were made by a 'fake left-wing' profile, when it is well-known that it was made by an EDL admin.

He also says that the Brevik link probably extended no further than him clicking 'like' on an EDL facebook page when it is now known that the links were more concrete than that.

john x
 
SpineyNorman said:
See bold - how on earth is that "good from a general antifascist pov"? Jesus christ.
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Spiney - I was talking about "Still Laughing at The English Defence League" on Facebook. It's main thing is taking the piss, but a lot of it is more generally anti fascist/racist and very good for updates. A lot of people / content crossover with "Expose" and EDL News.
 
Red Storm said:
Where do you think the BNP get their votes from? The working and lumpen classes are their constituency. EDIT: bad phrase to say consituency but I mean it's where they get most of their votes from.

If anything sneering at the literary abilities of the casual racists does nothing for the anti-fascist movement. What do you think they will think of you for laughing at their educational standard? 'Middle class prick' is what. Instead we should be trying to convert those that see race and nationality as the answer to their problems rather than class (and smash, where possible, the organisers of it). Being snooty will do anti-fascism no favours.
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They call us "middle class pricks" anyway. Why govern what we do or say by their paranoia? It's not snootiness, we are not talking about the odd typo or split infinitive here. It is extremely sub standard. If the irony of English patriots being shit at English escapes them or others then far enough. I find it funny. I am not trying to convert them in doing so. That requires reason, which appears to be beyond them too. There is a difference between saying "gosh, they are dim" about them and "gosh you are dim" to them.

As for class and the BNP - that is not the same point as associating extremely bad English skills with the working class. Some (pretty old) research shows that BNP voters have the lowest IQ of all voters. I know IQ tests chiefly measure the ability to do IQ tests, but again it is useful to know.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Spiney - I was talking about "Still Laughing at The English Defence League" on Facebook. It's main thing is taking the piss, but a lot of it is more generally anti fascist/racist and very good for updates. A lot of people / content crossover with "Expose" and EDL News.
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Yes, and most of it is taking the piss out of them for having poor grammar and a poor grasp of the English language. I don't know about you, but that's not what I find offensive about them, I'm more bothered about the racism. And when there's plenty of people not aligned to either "side" of this who share their lack of literary skill, and who could possibly be won over to either side, what impact do you think taking the piss out of it will have on them? Will they think, "you know, those middle class liberals are right, the EDL can't spell, just as I can't spell, and so don't deserve my support," or will they think, "the clueless middle class liberals are taking the piss out of people like me so I want to be on the other side"?

This is especially damaging when the same middle class liberals are also taking the piss out of them for being "benefits scrounging scum" or "unemployable", especially when compared to "entrepreneurial Muslims" and "hard working immigrants", as it often is.
 
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