Dulwich Hamlet FC 2013-2014 season - chat, rumours, reports

[cambelt]

Mishi,
Completely agree with the stance you're suggesting. By the sound of it we're more likely to survive by siding with the developers than by any other action, even if that doesn't raise the odds that much. It's not the right time antagonise any of the participants yet.

 

[PartisanDulwich]

So demand one

"Open the books"

Lets get an accountant to get to the bottom of these accounts ?

I know it wont be easy

But surely given the plight of the club nobody could at least morally oppose this

 

[SDE]

Cheers, Mish! Great to get some answers and clarifications. Might just have been me but I've been assuming people were using 'peppercorn' to mean minimal.

Most of those Qs unanswered still though, clearly. I guess we really need Nick M in the proverbial dock to unveil some transparency and / or a gathering with Hadley before most of us can form true opinions on any of this and help plough a proper channel to new, bright and pleasant lands.

HASHTAGINFO

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I've been through all this ground ownership/administration stuff with Luton. Several times! Hard grinding stuff. I'm very wary about developers making promises and bearing gifts at a time the club is vulnerable. Why are Hadley's paying the wages and gas bill? Sure, let's hear them out, but it sounds too good to be true imo. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong though.

The key is we get organised among ourselves and communicate.

On another point, I might pack a sandwich and a few beers one Sunday soon and go and sit in greendales for a few hours….and see whether the local nimbys actually use it to walk their dogs etc, or whether it is just unused scrub land. Used to occasionally go there to chill back in the day…it;s been a while!

 

[EDC]

I've walked my dog there (once), it's fucking horrible stinks of fox shit and god knows what else. You can bet most of those objecting to anything happening with the land have never been there and have no reason to. I'm sure the majority of those living in the flats overlooking it would rather look into a modern football ground playing attractive football for free.

 

[SDE]

The desperate hope in me says... I can't see a case for preserving Greendales once the issue is pushed hard enough - just imagine if it's 4 local simpering households versus 800 vociferous but articulate community-driven sports-entertainment wizards. On that basis, we could get a new ground on there. But that feels like a big BIG hope as it's much against the opinions of local MPs.

Meanwhile... Someone paying to turn the gas back on and budgeting even a few hundred £k to keep us running for a while means sod all. That's peanuts to them. And well worth their while if it keeps us quiet for a bit while longer term plans die out. That said, ain't seen or heard their plans so will deffo reserve judgement. Bottom line = need more NickM related facts and continued open discussions, else we'll all end up splintering into umpteen thought factions and go mental contemplating every possible outcome under the sun.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I've been through all this ground ownership/administration stuff with Luton. Several times! Hard grinding stuff. I'm very wary about developers making promises and bearing gifts at a time the club is vulnerable. Why are Hadley's paying the wages and gas bill? Sure, let's hear them out, but it sounds too good to be true imo. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong though.

What I was trying to articulate here was: I don't want to be in the position of blindly supporting the developer in their quest to build housing on our ground, without having any guarantees re greendales. You could say that already our opinions are being 'managed' with the offer of a new ground.

At the fans meeting about a year ago it was believed there was a possibility of building in the car parks and on the squash courts…if that's still a possibility I imagine the developers would be keen to do that first: it's the easiest bit, would start generating them some cash and would enable discussions re: the rest of the site to be ongoing. As I mentioned in a previous post, all this won't happen overnight so surely in the short term we need to be pushing for a short term extension to the current lease.

 

[Dulwich Mishi]

So demand one

"Open the books"

Lets get an accountant to get to the bottom of these accounts ?

I know it wont be easy

But surely given the plight of the club nobody could at least morally oppose this

At the moment we are a run as a private company...this is easier said than done. The accounts are legally passed and accepted by both company law & the Football Association, and are already in the public domain at Companies House.

There is no reason for the current owner to offer anything else.

Why not wait a few days, or a couple of weeks, whatever...and see how things pan out?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

The desperate hope in me says... I can't see a case for preserving Greendales once the issue is pushed hard enough - just imagine if it's 4 local simpering households versus 800 vociferous but articulate community-driven sports-entertainment wizards. On that basis, we could get a new ground on there.

Like. And I hope you're right!

Meanwhile... Someone paying to turn the gas back on and budgeting even a few hundred £k to keep us running for a while means sod all. That's peanuts to them. And well worth their while if it keeps us quiet for a bit while longer term plans die out. That said, ain't seen or heard their plans so will deffo reserve judgement.

As long as the money Hadleys are generously providing isn't going to the club in the form of loans…

 

[Brixton Hatter]

At the moment we are a run as a private company...this is easier said than done. The accounts are legally passed and accepted by both company law & the Football Association, and are already in the public domain at Companies House.

PartisanDulwich I doubt 'the accounts' would give you what you want anyway - they would be top line figures. I strongly doubt they would detail how much we took through the turnstiles/bar etc for each game.

 

[damon_th]

.

I've got some from the final game of last season, will dig them out.

 

[vornstyle76]

--Why were there 67 registered employees on an average of £30k pa salaries two years ago? (Compared to 10 people at £19k average the yr before and 2 at £11k the yr before that). Who are they? What is that cost line now?

Quoting this one purely because it's absolutely incredible. So dodgy. There's absolutely no doubt that getting rid of the current ownership is a positive.

 

[damon_th]

.

Here you go, lifting the cup, added to the original album ... I remember now why I omitted them. Have seen him at a game early this season but it's rare and he'll never return now. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...342359.1073741829.156412412358&type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...342359.1073741829.156412412358&type=3&theater

 

[Yorick]

Good work - it might also be useful to try and get a comment from the people standing to be Labour PPC for Dulwich and West Norwood. Obviously, none of them will be an MP until next year, but it would be good if the issue was raised with them now: I'm sure they'd be keen to be seen as active on local campaigns. So far I think Anne Fairweather, Fiona Twycross, Sally Prentice, Helen Hayes and Amy Lame (twitters attached) have announced they're standing.

The councillors saying they're "opposed to moving the current ground" means that they may well have to become involved in a camapaign to save Champion Hill. Perhaps be good to get quotes confirming their priority is ensuring Dulwich Hamlet have somewhere to play next season/have long-term security/continue their unstoppable rise to the summit of sexy world football.

 

[vornstyle76]

I think Champion Hill currently falls in the Camberwell & Peckham constituency. Though current Dulwich & West Norwood MP Tessa Jowell has voiced vague support for Dulwich Hamlet surviving in the area. It will obviously help if she's replaced by someone of a similar (or even stronger) opinion.

It is perfectly plausible that the councillors (those who are re-elected) will change their minds (or have their minds changed for them). Worth noting that this whole process is liable to take years (I found a case where it took Hadley 4 years to start work on an old industrial estate in Walthamstow due to planning appeals at different levels - and I think it had far less protection [if any] than Greendale). So we could be playing at Champion Hill for many seasons to come regardless of whatever solution eventually emerges (the nightmare flipside would be groundsharing somewhere else whilst years of planning crap drags on... hopefully we wouldn't have to move until a new ground was ready - one to ask when we get the opportunity).

 

[Onket]

Amy Lame is standing for selection as the L*bour party candidate for Dulwich and West Norwood.

http://www.amylame.com/

 

[G Man]

I'm mostly just reading with great interest and absorbing, the machinations of saving a football club is totally new to me!

Just an idea...maybe it's too early yet...but perhaps somebody could try to get there voice heard on a radio football phone-in, such as 606 on five live or talksport, the non-league show etc to bring the issue to the wider footballing community. It may be too early yet as Mishi says (not being in full possession of all the facts) to do anything drastic but I'm sure the football 'community' (whatever that means these days) would be be concerned to hear of the possible demise of a very famous non-league club, who are currently thriving, going to the wall.

 

[Dulwich Mishi]

"The councillors saying they're "opposed to moving the current ground" means that they may well have to become involved in a camapaign to save Champion Hill."

I think you are jumping the gun here..
Without a doubt ONE HUNDRED PER CENT the preferred option of Dulwich Hamlet Football Club will be to support the developers in relocating our Club onto Greendales. I am certain of that.

Keeping us at the current Champion Hill will be the 'fall back' option is this fails.

Make no mistake that is what will be the Club position, as far as I am concerned, and I will fully support that.

But until we hear from the new ground owners in the next few weeks hopefully I fail to see how some of you can draw up 'battle plans' until more is known.

But make no mistake...bills are being paid, and it's NOT by McCormack. Time to direct your anger to the right people...

Unless you feel saving the current ground and not building on Greendales is more important than the continued existence of the football club some of you profess to care about so much.

I, for one, do not want to watch an AFC Dulwich Hamlet 1893 type re-incarnation in a field playing around a roped off pitch with no other facilities, in the lower reaches of the Kent County League...

 

[Dulwich Mishi]

I'm mostly just reading with great interest and absorbing, the machinations of saving a football club is totally new to me!

Just an idea...maybe it's too early yet...but perhaps somebody could try to get there voice heard on a radio football phone-in, such as 606 on five live or talksport, the non-league show etc to bring the issue to the wider footballing community. It may be too early yet as Mishi says (not being in full possession of all the facts) to do anything drastic but I'm sure the football 'community' (whatever that means these days) would be be concerned to hear of the possible demise of a very famous non-league club, who are currently thriving, going to the wall.

Any Club could go to wall...as it stands AT THIS VERY MINUTE I believe there IS a medium to long term future for our Football Club...

As you say....IT'S TOO EARLY YET (with people) NOT BEING IN FULL POSSESSION OF THE FACTS....

 

[sleaterkinney]

Unless you feel saving the current ground and not building on Greendales is more important than the continued existence of the football club some of you profess to care about so much.

Why are you making snidey little digs like this?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

PartisanDulwich I doubt 'the accounts' would give you what you want anyway - they would be top line figures. I strongly doubt they would detail how much we took through the turnstiles/bar etc for each game.

Yes definitely. It would probably all be under 'trading income' as a single figure. To get any more detail you'd need to persuade them to allow you to inspect the books (or Sage files these days). Or get yourself appointed as their auditor.

 

[Scutta]

Why are you making snidey little digs like this?

not sure its a snidey dig...just being blunt about what's more important the stadium or the club?

 

[Onket]

Talking of 'the media', maybe someone like-

http://www.standamf.com/ Stand (Against Modern Football) fanzine

and

http://supportersnotcustomers.com/ Blog

would be interested in running a story? We've certainly got the photos, writers, matchday posters, flags, etc to make it interesting....

 

[Taper]

I think what is called for at present is a purposeful and dispassionate series of conversations with Hadley, based on what they say are their aspirations for the club and the ground. As Mishi says, they have the potential to provide a long term stable footing for the club. So there is no need for a counsel of despair. Nor imv is there anything to benefit fans at present rushing to the media, who might want to overplay the crisis/evil-developer spin of this story.

 

[Yorick]

"The councillors saying they're "opposed to moving the current ground" means that they may well have to become involved in a camapaign to save Champion Hill."

I think you are jumping the gun here..
Without a doubt ONE HUNDRED PER CENT the preferred option of Dulwich Hamlet Football Club will be to support the developers in relocating our Club onto Greendales. I am certain of that.

Keeping us at the current Champion Hill will be the 'fall back' option is this fails.

I'm happy to accept that, but if local councillors (inclding the council leader) are so staunchly against that option at this stage I can see it being an unlikely outcome. In which case, they would then be helpful allies for our fallback option. I have no problem with supporting a move to Greendales, but don't think it's jumping the gun to consider what might be useful if that turns out to be a bit of a non-starter. Obviously, we should be asking why the council are opposed to the move, and Hadley would hopefully seek to address their concerns in any proposal.

I think Champion Hill currently falls in the Camberwell & Peckham constituency.

Hadn't realised this. Maybe we could raise something with both Harriet Harman and Jowell, if only to get some vague public support on the matter.

 

[damon_th]

Quick query on the electric bill. Does anyone actually know who paid it? Would be interesting to know [and I do mean the electric bill, tho' it would also be nice to know for certain who paid the gas].

Also, if you're the kind of person who doesn't see the importance of paying monthly/quarterly utility bills because the club might not exist soon, a bill that only crops up once a year (HMRC) is likely to be even lower down the priority list. Brace yourselves.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Quick query on the electric bill. Does anyone actually know who paid it? Would be interesting to know.

My guess (and it is pure speculation) would be that a payment plan has been agreed rather than it being paid off.

 

[editor]

I got my supporters trust newsletter today. There's a lot to get my head around in there.

I mentioned this before, but given the way things are changing, do you think a dedicated Hamlet forum might be an idea because I fear that the financial stuff is getting lost in this thread. The advantages of such a public forum would be that a lot more people would be able to keep track of what's going on, and we could start specific threads on the important issues.

Just a thought...

 

[damon_th]

I got my supporters trust newsletter today. There's a lot to get my head around in there.

I mentioned this before, but given the way things are changing, do you think a dedicated Hamlet forum might be an idea because I fear that the financial stuff is getting lost in this thread. The advantages of such a public forum would be that a lot more people would be able to keep track of what's going on, and we could start specific threads on the important issues.

Just a thought...

There is one. Whether this chat would be welcome on there is another matter. http://forums.footballwebpages.co.uk/forum.jsp?id=264

 

[editor]

There is one. Whether this chat would be welcome on there is another matter. http://forums.footballwebpages.co.uk/forum.jsp?id=264

I've tried to use that forum but it is a bugger to read/navigate. Bit too 'austerity' for me!

I don't want to take traffic from there but the reason I'm suggesting setting up a forum here is that it would almost certainly reach far more people, given the popularity of these boards. I'd be happy to host that forum here as well. But it's just an idea....