Dulwich Hamlet fans discuss how to bring the joy back to Champion Hill

[StephenMac]

Oh, absolutely. Like I say, I've known Tom for years and I've stood on the touchline with him on multiple occasions and discussed this, that, and the other. I don't doubt his integrity for a moment.

I won't be emailing on this occasion, however. I feel we've all had more than our fill of my musings and people can read my thoughts here - I see no need in repeating myself.

I am hurt by the events on here in the last few days, too, and so I don't have a huge amount of enthusiasm for direct, private chats with board members (again, not Tom personally - I would say the same if it was Mel or Ben). Tonight has not been fun by any stretch of the imagination. Like you say, I think a few deep breathes and a bit of space might do everyone some good, myself in particular.

Entirely fair enough. I just wanted to try and defuse the tension a little. Not something I excel at admittedly.

 

[StephenMac]

The best thing about 7-8 years a ago we all really could have it out and we were still us at the end of the day...... we didnt ignore each other and we built what we could out of what we had....

It's different now 70% of the people there aren't us anymore.... so im not surprised the management focusses on them......

the simple solution is make that 70% us...........reach out to them ........but also tell the cunts to fuck off (that is ok too)

We need you back for a couple of years to sort it.

 

[festa]

We need you back for a couple of years to sort it.

without giving too much away a few people are in talks to organise something fun over the next 5 years.... please dont destroy it before!!!!

 

[scousedom]

Thing is, good social media engagement should be tailored to suit the audience and the interface should never provide an unnecessary or difficult barrier to engagement with that audience.

Discord is really not an appropriate platform for the club to host the discussions it says it wants to hear from fans.

I agree that the engagement should suit the audience. I agree that Discord seems very chatty, quick questions and answers. But that is just a first impression, maybe that will change with use, who knows - but I’d be surprised.

I would say though that it’s already produced several acknowledgments on the Club side of capacity being an issue, numbers of mid-2000s being mentioned. So it has produced that positive impact. And if you want the long form then there is the email route.

Maybe a possible approach for this forum is to have the discussion and argument and debate, and once a thread feels “finished” someone (the thread creator?) pulls together the different questions raised and emails them to Tom as requested, with replies and follow ups posted here also…?

 

[Taper]

The Supporters Trust (of which I'm no longer a board member) is the best means through which to get these views heard. And Tim has been clear on this forum that the issues reflected here (and elsewhere) have been heard and will be raised and discussed with the club. I am absolutely confident this will happen and that action will be taken.

We do need to be generous and support those who do the work to get it right. The huge majority of people working to make this club a success are volunteers. And I am in absolute awe how much time and heart they put in. I did my bit. But people like Duncan Chapman and Tom and others put my paltry efforts to shame. We'd be flat on our arse without them.

I didn't enjoy Saturday at all and left after half an hour. But that was largely because the team were crap. How to deal with the "problem" of huge crowds turning up is a pretty good problem to have. The long term solution of course is getting the new stadium right. And that is going to be a fraught process, where we all need to be generous and constructive towards a shared endeavour of a sustainable, successful club of which we can all be proud.

 

[chris gil]

The subject of all of us not being able to get together and create the noise /atmosphere , how about we do what we did for the Macclesfield game and move to the Toilets Opposite , that standing is now longer and has more steps since the upgrade we did of all standing in the summer of 2019.

When i change ends i recognise a lot of people there and the knob 'ead quota seems pretty low

 

[festa]

The Supporters Trust (of which I'm no longer a board member) is the best means through which to get these views heard. And Tim has been clear on this forum that the issues reflected here (and elsewhere) have been heard and will be raised and discussed with the club. I am absolutely confident this will happen and that action will be taken.

We do need to be generous and support those who do the work to get it right. The huge majority of people working to make this club a success are volunteers. And I am in absolute awe how much time and heart they put in. I did my bit. But people like Duncan Chapman and Tom and others put my paltry efforts to shame. We'd be flat on our arse without them.

I didn't enjoy Saturday at all and left after half an hour. But that was largely because the team were crap. How to deal with the "problem" of huge crowds turning up is a pretty good problem to have. The long term solution of course is getting the new stadium right. And that is going to be a fraught process, where we all need to be generous and constructive towards a shared endeavour of a sustainable, successful club of which we can all be proud.

After being a board member for 2 years I agree and disagree... the trust is one way to go and should be used.

But it's up to the fans to take control and make their voices heard organically, otherwise the trust is just another crutch to lean on and expect someone else to do it.

 

[Roger D]

The club have tweeted that the Board and Supporters Trust Board meet tonight to discuss events on Saturday.

If anyone still wants to feedback to either the club or Trust, please do it soon.

 

[Dirty South]

Sad to read so much dissent at a club like ours. I wasn't at the 'Ricay game but for what it's worth, the atmosphere and singing was still pretty good at the Hungerford game. That was only a month ago and with a crowd of about 2000. I don't enjoy it when it gets too crowded either, but it doesn't mean all is lost.

 

[StephenMac]

Chatting to Scutta (or festa, in his current guise) last night was a bit of a boon. He's a 'can do' kind of bloke and, while I accept that he selfishly won't move back from Hamburg to sort everything out, we should definitely listen to him.

The whole day trippers/casuals/whatever issue and the impact on atmosphere has been flogged to death over the last few years and i'm more guilty than most. But we are getting huge crowds and we can continue to stick to misty-eyed nostalgia about years gone by and scowling, or we can try and put it right a little. There's been talk on the Discord thingy today, and by Chris here, about giving the Toilets Opposite another go. Sound like a plan? Gather the noisier types together and go for it, get all the banners up etc. Claim it, essentially. It would also get shot of the need to change ends at half-time.

Then perhaps it's about getting newer arrivals involved if they want to be. We've all had our say about fucking key jangling but doesn't the fact that it's still a thing suggest that there is in fact a desire from more people to get involved and be part of something? (Yeah, i'm freaking myself out just by typing that).

So, songs. Perhaps it's time to think less about some of the more esoteric efforts which sail straight over most people's heads. That's not a criticism of the small number of plucky folk who still try to get singing going intermittently but it's not 7, 8, 9 or 10 years ago now and Robert and others aren't about to create new ones. Appropriating California Uber Alles for a chant is still funny as fuck in my tiny mind but maybe for now there's more of a need for the 'Give me a D-...' types of easily learnable stuff and see where it goes. Or maybe (and I REALLY can't believe i'm saying this) there's an argument for handing out sheets with the words on to help anyone who's interested on their way. Or is there a more environmentally sound way of doing it? Is sharing stuff via bluetooth a thing (I have no fucking idea what it is really)?

In short, we can make an effort with newer arrivals. I loved it when I started going and was content to mind my own business but the proper bond started with Scutta and Nisha striking up conversations with me when they were putting banners up a few games in. That personal touch is a little trickier now perhaps but there must be ways. It might seem weird, really weird, that we might be perceived as a little intimidating by new people. Does it all look a little clique-y and 'us and them'? It's a slightly horrifying thought but maybe it does.

Don't get me wrong, a prick is still a prick and some people might bring a slightly different, um, ethos to games. So we police those people e.g. the No Surrender types from Saturday. Similarly, those at the extreme end of having absolutely no interest in the game or club will continue to deserve scorn but perhaps it's time to give many a bit more of a chance.

Or, as I say, we can just moan and reminisce or even stop going altogether.

Anyway, fuck you Scutta/festa. Love you x

 

[tonysingh]

Chatting to Scutta (or festa, in his current guise) last night was a bit of a boon. He's a 'can do' kind of bloke and, while I accept that he selfishly won't move back from Hamburg to sort everything out, we should definitely listen to him.

The whole day trippers/casuals/whatever issue and the impact on atmosphere has been flogged to death over the last few years and i'm more guilty than most. But we are getting huge crowds and we can continue to stick to misty-eyed nostalgia about years gone by and scowling, or we can try and put it right a little. There's been talk on the Discord thingy today, and by Chris here, about giving the Toilets Opposite another go. Sound like a plan? Gather the noisier types together and go for it, get all the banners up etc. Claim it, essentially. It would also get shot of the need to change ends at half-time.

Then perhaps it's about getting newer arrivals involved if they want to be. We've all had our say about fucking key jangling but doesn't the fact that it's still a thing suggest that there is in fact a desire from more people to get involved and be part of something? (Yeah, i'm freaking myself out just by typing that).

So, songs. Perhaps it's time to think less about some of the more esoteric efforts which sail straight over most people's heads. That's not a criticism of the small number of plucky folk who still try to get singing going intermittently but it's not 7, 8, 9 or 10 years ago now and Robert and others aren't about to create new ones. Appropriating California Uber Alles for a chant is still funny as fuck in my tiny mind but maybe for now there's more of a need for the 'Give me a D-...' types of easily learnable stuff and see where it goes. Or maybe (and I REALLY can't believe i'm saying this) there's an argument for handing out sheets with the words on to help anyone who's interested on their way. Or is there a more environmentally sound way of doing it? Is sharing stuff via bluetooth a thing (I have no fucking idea what it is really)?

In short, we can make an effort with newer arrivals. I loved it when I started going and was content to mind my own business but the proper bond started with Scutta and Nisha striking up conversations with me when they were putting banners up a few games in. That personal touch is a little trickier now perhaps but there must be ways. It might seem weird, really weird, that we might be perceived as a little intimidating by new people. Does it all look a little clique-y and 'us and them'? It's a slightly horrifying thought but maybe it does.

Don't get me wrong, a prick is still a prick and some people might bring a slightly different, um, ethos to games. So we police those people e.g. the No Surrender types from Saturday. Similarly, those at the extreme end of having absolutely no interest in the game or club will continue to deserve scorn but perhaps it's time to give many a bit more of a chance.

Or, as I say, we can just moan and reminisce or even stop going altogether.

Anyway, fuck you Scutta/festa. Love you x

Essentially you're saying for the more well seasoned of us to help newer fans learn the ropes of being a Dulwich Hamlet fan ergo we get a decent atmosphere back?

 

[StephenMac]

Essentially you're saying for the more well seasoned of us to help newer fans learn the ropes of being a Dulwich Hamlet fan ergo we get a decent atmosphere back?

Yeah, if you like. Why not?

 

[tonysingh]

Yeah, if you like. Why not?

I wasn't arguing, just clarifying.


Eta, I'm not always a contrary bastard, honest.

 

[StephenMac]

I wasn't arguing, just clarifying.

I didn't plan to dribble on like I did but thought it might be worth thinking about possible practicalities rather than just the sentiment of it. Last go at trying for me because I'll be fucking off south like you in the next year.

Not suggesting the past can be recreated. Mishi, Robert and others aren't coming back sadly. Just think it's worth trying to turn what has almost become a chore into something enjoyable again.

 

[tonysingh]

I didn't plan to dribble on like I did but thought it might be worth thinking about possible practicalities rather than just the sentiment of it. Last go at trying for me because I'll be fucking off south like you in the next year.

Not suggesting the past can be recreated. Mishi, Robert and others aren't coming back sadly. Just think it's worth trying to turn what has almost become a chore into something enjoyable again.

Its worth a shot. In any event, it'd be a dick move to not even try and then moan. At least this way we can say we gave it some effort.

As it stands right now, I feel much more comfortable doing away games that I can get to as opposed to home matches so any effort to improve things is fair enough.

 

[StephenMac]

Its worth a shot. In any event, it'd be a dick move to not even try and then moan. At least this way we can say we gave it some effort.

As it stands right now, I feel much more comfortable doing away games that I can get to as opposed to home matches so any effort to improve things is fair enough.

Well, your comment the other day re the last game at Maidstone resonated with me. Maybe if we can get our act together at home it might crossover to away games a little too.

 

[T Corcoran]

In short, we can make an effort with newer arrivals.

Me and the AJ Harris Sealey sponsor have tried getting a song for him, it goes to the come on feel the noise tune

Come on AJ Harris
Score some goals for Dulwich
We go wild wild wild
Wild wild wild.
Repeat. I think it's an okay song but at least there's a start if people want to catch on

 

[editor]

So, songs. Perhaps it's time to think less about some of the more esoteric efforts which sail straight over most people's heads. That's not a criticism of the small number of plucky folk who still try to get singing going intermittently but it's not 7, 8, 9 or 10 years ago now and Robert and others aren't about to create new ones. Appropriating California Uber Alles for a chant is still funny as fuck in my tiny mind but maybe for now there's more of a need for the 'Give me a D-...' types of easily learnable stuff and see where it goes. Or maybe (and I REALLY can't believe i'm saying this) there's an argument for handing out sheets with the words on to help anyone who's interested on their way. Or is there a more environmentally sound way of doing it? Is sharing stuff via bluetooth a thing (I have no fucking idea what it is really)?

This (outdated) page from 2013 still gets a surprising amount of hits. I'd be only too happy to update it if people could suggest what songs should be featured

Dulwich Hamlet FC songbook – the great chants from Champion Hill

Dulwich Hamlet are noted for their enthusiastic and vociferous support, and have a repertoire of songs that would put many big clubs to shame. Some are very funny indeed. Some are just plain odd. O…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

(I just smiled remembering the FIG! chant)

 

[MrFouldsy]

Chatting to Scutta (or festa, in his current guise) last night was a bit of a boon. He's a 'can do' kind of bloke and, while I accept that he selfishly won't move back from Hamburg to sort everything out, we should definitely listen to him.

The whole day trippers/casuals/whatever issue and the impact on atmosphere has been flogged to death over the last few years and i'm more guilty than most. But we are getting huge crowds and we can continue to stick to misty-eyed nostalgia about years gone by and scowling, or we can try and put it right a little. There's been talk on the Discord thingy today, and by Chris here, about giving the Toilets Opposite another go. Sound like a plan? Gather the noisier types together and go for it, get all the banners up etc. Claim it, essentially. It would also get shot of the need to change ends at half-time.

Then perhaps it's about getting newer arrivals involved if they want to be. We've all had our say about fucking key jangling but doesn't the fact that it's still a thing suggest that there is in fact a desire from more people to get involved and be part of something? (Yeah, i'm freaking myself out just by typing that).

So, songs. Perhaps it's time to think less about some of the more esoteric efforts which sail straight over most people's heads. That's not a criticism of the small number of plucky folk who still try to get singing going intermittently but it's not 7, 8, 9 or 10 years ago now and Robert and others aren't about to create new ones. Appropriating California Uber Alles for a chant is still funny as fuck in my tiny mind but maybe for now there's more of a need for the 'Give me a D-...' types of easily learnable stuff and see where it goes. Or maybe (and I REALLY can't believe i'm saying this) there's an argument for handing out sheets with the words on to help anyone who's interested on their way. Or is there a more environmentally sound way of doing it? Is sharing stuff via bluetooth a thing (I have no fucking idea what it is really)?

In short, we can make an effort with newer arrivals. I loved it when I started going and was content to mind my own business but the proper bond started with Scutta and Nisha striking up conversations with me when they were putting banners up a few games in. That personal touch is a little trickier now perhaps but there must be ways. It might seem weird, really weird, that we might be perceived as a little intimidating by new people. Does it all look a little clique-y and 'us and them'? It's a slightly horrifying thought but maybe it does.

Don't get me wrong, a prick is still a prick and some people might bring a slightly different, um, ethos to games. So we police those people e.g. the No Surrender types from Saturday. Similarly, those at the extreme end of having absolutely no interest in the game or club will continue to deserve scorn but perhaps it's time to give many a bit more of a chance.

Or, as I say, we can just moan and reminisce or even stop going altogether.

Anyway, fuck you Scutta/festa. Love you x

Chatting to Scutta (or festa, in his current guise) last night was a bit of a boon. He's a 'can do' kind of bloke and, while I accept that he selfishly won't move back from Hamburg to sort everything out, we should definitely listen to him.

The whole day trippers/casuals/whatever issue and the impact on atmosphere has been flogged to death over the last few years and i'm more guilty than most. But we are getting huge crowds and we can continue to stick to misty-eyed nostalgia about years gone by and scowling, or we can try and put it right a little. There's been talk on the Discord thingy today, and by Chris here, about giving the Toilets Opposite another go. Sound like a plan? Gather the noisier types together and go for it, get all the banners up etc. Claim it, essentially. It would also get shot of the need to change ends at half-time.

Then perhaps it's about getting newer arrivals involved if they want to be. We've all had our say about fucking key jangling but doesn't the fact that it's still a thing suggest that there is in fact a desire from more people to get involved and be part of something? (Yeah, i'm freaking myself out just by typing that).

So, songs. Perhaps it's time to think less about some of the more esoteric efforts which sail straight over most people's heads. That's not a criticism of the small number of plucky folk who still try to get singing going intermittently but it's not 7, 8, 9 or 10 years ago now and Robert and others aren't about to create new ones. Appropriating California Uber Alles for a chant is still funny as fuck in my tiny mind but maybe for now there's more of a need for the 'Give me a D-...' types of easily learnable stuff and see where it goes. Or maybe (and I REALLY can't believe i'm saying this) there's an argument for handing out sheets with the words on to help anyone who's interested on their way. Or is there a more environmentally sound way of doing it? Is sharing stuff via bluetooth a thing (I have no fucking idea what it is really)?

In short, we can make an effort with newer arrivals. I loved it when I started going and was content to mind my own business but the proper bond started with Scutta and Nisha striking up conversations with me when they were putting banners up a few games in. That personal touch is a little trickier now perhaps but there must be ways. It might seem weird, really weird, that we might be perceived as a little intimidating by new people. Does it all look a little clique-y and 'us and them'? It's a slightly horrifying thought but maybe it does.

Don't get me wrong, a prick is still a prick and some people might bring a slightly different, um, ethos to games. So we police those people e.g. the No Surrender types from Saturday. Similarly, those at the extreme end of having absolutely no interest in the game or club will continue to deserve scorn but perhaps it's time to give many a bit more of a chance.

Or, as I say, we can just moan and reminisce or even stop going altogether.

Anyway, fuck you Scutta/festa. Love you x

Completely behind this, Macca. I'm up for giving it a go. As Scutta said, we can create the fan culture we want to see.

A couple of other things. When I first started going with Tim we both were slightly star struck by the Rabble and when we broke though to actually talking to people it was brilliant. It did feel like a clique, but one that when you'd earned your stripes you were made. Now I'm inside I can't think of someone I've guided through those same steps, which is a bit sad. So perhaps establishing a base is one way to start creating the culture?

 

[StephenMac]

Me and the AJ Harris Sealey sponsor have tried getting a song for him, it goes to the come on feel the noise tune

Come on AJ Harris
Score some goals for Dulwich
We go wild wild wild
Wild wild wild.
Repeat. I think it's an okay song but at least there's a start if people want to catch on

There you go (sort of), although Poids may feel you're muscling in on his song.

Are we sure there's going to be an opportunity to sing it though? Think he might be on Gav's naughty step and that rarely ends well.

 

[StephenMac]

This (outdated) page from 2013 still gets a surprising amount of hits. I'd be only too happy to update it if people could suggest what songs should be featured

Dulwich Hamlet FC songbook – the great chants from Champion Hill

Dulwich Hamlet are noted for their enthusiastic and vociferous support, and have a repertoire of songs that would put many big clubs to shame. Some are very funny indeed. Some are just plain odd. O…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

(I just smiled remembering the FIG! chant)

Could be a plan. It seems that Tuesday's game might be taken as an opportunity to try out the move to TO and that should give people a chance to figure out what's what re songs, banners and that.

I'm not claiming any sort of ownership of this. I'm just still on a Scutta high and essentially passing on other people's ideas.

Reading that article though, there's actually quite a few easily learnt songs that aren't era-specific in there which I'd forgotten about. And ones like Tuscany and Fields of Champion Hill having little explanations with them is a spot on approach if people decide that disseminating lyrics in some way is a good idea.

 

[StephenMac]

Completely behind this, Macca. I'm up for giving it a go. As Scutta said, we can create the fan culture we want to see.

A couple of other things. When I first started going with Tim we both were slightly star struck by the Rabble and when we broke though to actually talking to people it was brilliant. It did feel like a clique, but one that when you'd earned your stripes you were made. Now I'm inside I can't think of someone I've guided through those same steps, which is a bit sad. So perhaps establishing a base is one way to start creating the culture?

Excellent.

Interesting about yours and Tim's experience and a bit alarming in a way. I don't think I'd ever considered how it might appear before last night and I really fucking hate cliques. Pretty sure I've never helped anyone like that either or even thought that maybe I should.

One thing that has maybe changed in recent years is that new people I think often turn up in larger groups rather than ones and twos. So maybe there won't be a big appetite for getting more involved.

We should give it a go though.

 

[editor]

Could be a plan. It seems that Tuesday's game might be taken as an opportunity to try out the move to TO and that should give people a chance to figure out what's what re songs, banners and that.

I'm not claiming any sort of ownership of this. I'm just still on a Scutta high and essentially passing on other people's ideas.

Reading that article though, there's actually quite a few easily learnt songs that aren't era-specific in there which I'd forgotten about. And ones like Tuscany and Fields of Champion Hill having little explanations with them is a spot on approach if people decide that disseminating lyrics in some way is a good idea.

It might be seen as naff - and maybe it is - but handing out folded one page A4 photocopies with the words to selected songs could provide a cheap shortcut to get new folks up to speed

 

[StephenMac]

This (outdated) page from 2013 still gets a surprising amount of hits. I'd be only too happy to update it if people could suggest what songs should be featured

Dulwich Hamlet FC songbook – the great chants from Champion Hill

Dulwich Hamlet are noted for their enthusiastic and vociferous support, and have a repertoire of songs that would put many big clubs to shame. Some are very funny indeed. Some are just plain odd. O…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

(I just smiled remembering the FIG! chant)

I know you're not keen on the Discord business but they've set up a song page. Mind if I link to this piece there? For the common good and all that.

 

[pompeydunc]

It might be seen as naff - and maybe it is - but handing out folded one page A4 photocopies with the words to selected songs could provide a cheap shortcut to get new folks up to speed

Lots of good ideas here, but please don't let the song sheet idea get legs. It's completely cringeworthy. Organic (re)growth is what's needed.

 

[StephenMac]

Lots of good ideas here, but please don't let the song sheet idea get legs. It's completely cringeworthy. Organic (re)growth is what's needed.

I get the cringe factor entirely but what does organic (re)growth mean and how does it work? I'm all for solutions.

 

[Scottfield]

Excellent.

Interesting about yours and Tim's experience and a bit alarming in a way. I don't think I'd ever considered how it might appear before last night and I really fucking hate cliques. Pretty sure I've never helped anyone like that either or even thought that maybe I should.

One thing that has maybe changed in recent years is that new people I think often turn up in larger groups rather than ones and twos. So maybe there won't be a big appetite for getting more involved.

We should give it a go though.

Classic predatory tactics, Macca - find the weak individuals and pick them off - leave the heard alone - not worth it ;-)



What MrFouldsy says is true though. that is how it happened. I vividly remember Scutta asking for a light and being surprised at my producing a box of matches. "Old Skool" he said and from there a gradual rapport with other rabble developed. But as crowds have swelled and faces have changed, the space to develop those new relationships has perhaps been compromised.

So if we do gather next time, be it behind the goal or along the side, let's make sure we all remember the ethos that makes this a great club - be welcoming, be inclusive, do talk to strangers.

 

[Cyclodunc]

i similarly recall feeling a bit nervous talking to people. Trying a few times and not getting far. Then I sat next to B.I.G on the coach to margate (and behind scutta and nisha) and the rest is history

 

[tonysingh]

I get the cringe factor entirely but what does organic (re)growth mean and how does it work? I'm all for solutions.

Organic growth means throwing manure at Sketchley.

 

[pompeydunc]

I get the cringe factor entirely but what does organic (re)growth mean and how does it work? I'm all for solutions.

Fair point. I am largely just using Scutta's use of the word organic without giving it too much thought! I guess it means avoid top down organised things for improving an atmosphere (we're not south American ultras). The best DHFC things have often been pretty random and unexpected. I am confident that Maidstone will be a great atmosphere without having to organise too much. Attendance will more like 1800 (as it's a Tuesday), TOFFONS will return for some, more people with have cans in pockets to avoid the bar queues, the queues for portacabins will be shorter.....and we will lose 3-1.