Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[J Ed]

50% of Clinton voters reckon that Russia hacked voting machines in order to get Trump to win.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/12/27/belief-conspiracies-largely-depends-political-iden/

 

[J Ed]

I love how in US politics in 2016 everyone from Paul Krugman to Bill O'Reilly to Jill Stein is like those Zeitgeist cult people except with a varying stupid conspiracy theory which validates whatever their particular politics are.

 

[CRI]

And what do you propose as an alternative to solidarity? What do you offer other than divide-and-rule identity politics?

Why does it have to be either/or?

For folk on the left, the root of all oppression is class, using the white, working class male as their model (e.g. statements about the "working class" supporting Brexit and Trump.)

So, when women and men of colour, or women generally point out this ignores the systemic racism and sexism they face, it's "splained" they're mistaken. It really is about class and once the class system is smashed, racism, sexism and other oppression will vanish, too.

If they then suggest the movement do more to tackle sexism, racism, etc. in society or (dare they say it) the movement itself, they can expect to be ignored, told they're being divisive with their "identity politics," shunned and/or monstered. Think back, for example, to the SWP response to the accusation of rape against a senior member.

Expecting solidarity from folks who know inevitably they'll get thrown under the bus if/when it comes down to the "wider interests of the movement" is just shitty.

The alternative is a movement based on understanding of systemic oppression and privilege as intersectional.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

People voted for Trump for all sorts of reasons, discontent with a political system from which they are pretty much excluded, suffering the downsides but not seeing upsides from globalization, hating black people and an awful lot taken in by his superb rabble-rousing skills. Didn't hurt him that Clinton was such an awful candidate to boot, the woman had elite written all over her (so did Donald but he was much better at hiding it)
The problem is he's given new life to the crazies and the haters who project their own distorted view of the world onto him and he doesn't care.
He just wants the pomp of being King and maybe make a few billions along the way, the USA is going to be in deep shit for the next few years and chaos tends not to stay in one place.

 

[J Ed]

Why does it have to be either/or?

For folk on the left, the root of all oppression is class, using the white, working class male as their model (e.g. statements about the "working class" supporting Brexit and Trump.)

So, when women and men of colour, or women generally point out this ignores the systemic racism and sexism they face, it's "splained" they're mistaken. It really is about class and once the class system is smashed, racism, sexism and other oppression will vanish, too.

If they then suggest the movement do more to tackle sexism, racism, etc. in society or (dare they say it) the movement itself, they can expect to be ignored, told they're being divisive with their "identity politics," shunned and/or monstered. Think back, for example, to the SWP response to the accusation of rape against a senior member.

Expecting solidarity from folks who know inevitably they'll get thrown under the bus if/when it comes down to the "wider interests of the movement" is just shitty.

The alternative is a movement based on understanding of systemic oppression and privilege as intersectional.

Someone let me know when this person mentions a single policy they advocate or type of politics beyond the politics of self expression. The only thing they seem to be interested in or care about is, and even this is reaching desperately for something coherent in amongst the total nonsense, how they think people on a micro level identify and talk with one another.

 

[J Ed]

It's all just individualist self-expression and identity, not even gender or ethnic identity just individual identity, as politics.


No 'Hillary Clinton was good because of X, Bernie Sanders was worse because of Y'.

Nothing like 'Bernie Sanders did this and that was bad' even

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

People voted for Trump for all sorts of reasons, discontent with a political system from which they are pretty much excluded, suffering the downsides but not seeing upsides from globalization, hating black people and an awful lot taken in by his superb rabble-rousing skills. Didn't hurt him that Clinton was such an awful candidate to boot, the woman had elite written all over her (so did Donald but he was much better at hiding it)
The problem is he's given new life to the crazies and the haters who project their own distorted view of the world onto him and he doesn't care.
He just wants the pomp of being King and maybe make a few billions along the way, the USA is going to be in deep shit for the next few years and chaos tends not to stay in one place.

People of color, etc, might also want to ask just how soon after the Workers Revolt, will the colorblind/prejudice-free society begin? Seems like anti-semitism was alive and well in Stalin's Soviet Union; and an examination of the upper echelons of the Cuban Communist elite will reveal mostly faces with a decidedly Castilian Spanish heritage.

 

[J Ed]

People of color, etc, might also want to ask just how soon after the Workers Revolt, will the colorblind/prejudice-free society begin? Seems like anti-semitism was alive and well in Stalin's Soviet Union; and an examination of the upper echelons of the Cuban Communist elite will reveal mostly faces with a decidedly Castilian Spanish heritage.

Can you identify any groups or persons who actually believe in the positions you are attacking here?

 

[redsquirrel]

Can you identify any groups or persons who actually believe in the positions you are attacking here?

But J Ed it's self evident! After all

For folk on the left, the root of all oppression is class, using the white, working class male as their model (e.g. statements about the "working class" supporting Brexit and Trump.)

 

[Casually Red]

People voted for Trump for all sorts of reasons, discontent with a political system from which they are pretty much excluded, suffering the downsides but not seeing upsides from globalization, hating black people and an awful lot taken in by his superb rabble-rousing skills. Didn't hurt him that Clinton was such an awful candidate to boot, the woman had elite written all over her (so did Donald but he was much better at hiding it)
The problem is he's given new life to the crazies and the haters who project their own distorted view of the world onto him and he doesn't care.
He just wants the pomp of being King and maybe make a few billions along the way, the USA is going to be in deep shit for the next few years and chaos tends not to stay in one place.

The USA is already in deep shit and has caused no end of chaos under Obamas tenure..who seems to hell bent on maximum chaos before he leaves . Many of the same people who elected Trump also elected Obama twice . Rejecting Clinton firmly in the process . She should have fucked off after that . A black guy, unknown , virtually no experience . An outsider..or so it seemed . Elected twice on a promise of change and he changed absolutely nothing . They were still excluded..he had 8 years to include them and did nothing ..except bail banks out with their money . He just wanted to be king as well .
Now after 8 years of that "outsider" they think this inexperienced outsider will change something . Trump has a racist following, no doubt about that . But this " basket of deplorables " stuff is what cost Clinton an election that should have been a penalty kick to anyone marginally less entitled . Against a massive fucking clown . Who got elected because he portrayed himself successfully as anti establishment . Just like Obama did .

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Many of the same people who elected Trump also elected Obama twice

Is that what the Russian secret database hacks are saying?

 

[Casually Red]

Is that what the Russian secret database hacks are saying?

Da

Duh

 

[J Ed]

Is that what the Russian secret database hacks are saying?

Any luck finding any of these class first and only leftists?

 

[J Ed]

Perhaps the funniest thing about that Yougov poll is that 17% of the Clinton supporters believed the Pizzagate thing about the child abuse ring being run by Podesta and they still voted for her

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

A black guy, unknown , virtually no experience ..

Just because he was unknown in Britain, or wherever you're from, doesn't mean he was unknown in the country where he became President. He was a senator from Illinois before becoming President.

 

[Casually Red]

Just because he was unknown in Britain, or wherever you're from, doesn't mean he was unknown in the country where he became President. He was a senator from Illinois before becoming President.

A man so well known beforehand by his fellow Americans millions of them thought he was a Muslim from Kenya .

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

A man so well known beforehand by his fellow Americans millions of them thought he was a Muslim from Kenya .

Mostly Trump supporters.

Deplorable.

 

[Casually Red]

Basketcase

 

[J Ed]

Mostly Trump supporters.

Deplorable.

Not just deplorables...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Tuesday, the newspaper reported that Russian officials said they were no longer disputing that a doping program existed.
"It was an institutional conspiracy," the newspaper quoted Anna Antseliovich as saying.

NYT affirms accuracy of Russian doping story - CNN.com

Can this be right?

The Russians did something..... wrong?

 

[TomUS]

A man so well known beforehand by his fellow Americans millions of them thought he was a Muslim from Kenya .

Due to right wing propaganda and gullible right wing Americans.

 

[Casually Red]

Due to right wing propaganda and gullible right wing Americans.

As far as you know.....

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If the Russians were lying about the Olympic doping ... could it be possible that they're lying about the election hacking?

 

[CRI]

Didn't hurt him that Clinton was such an awful candidate to boot, the woman had elite written all over her (so did Donald but he was much better at hiding it)

Whoa pal, I think you need to go to Specsavers!

 

[CRI]

New York Times says it was ‘a de facto instrument of Russian intelligence’

Buried deep in The New York Times' mammoth investigation into Russia's attempt to sway the election through hacking is a noteworthy show of humility.

Near the story's conclusion, The Times acknowledges that, along with other American news organizations, it spread information extracted from the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign by Russian intelligence:

 

[CRI]

Have they got work experience students staffing the Russian Embassy Twitter feeds or something? Crikey!



Handy map, just in case anyone wasn't sure where the United States is. Except the Great Lakes and Michigan are all squiffy, and forgot about Hawaii and Alaska (latter may be an old bone of contention of course.)

 

[Tankus]

Bet they got a bulk deal on the 35 return airfares......valid for two months

 

[CRI]

Bet they got a bulk deal on the 35 return airfares......valid for two months

Subject to terms and conditions tho.

 

[gosub]

Well, I think first the US should ask itself why is it OK when Rupert Murdoch does it but not ok when Putin does (assuming he did)

Rupert Murdoch is a US citizen.





Oops sorry, been having a Trump free Xmas

 

[Casually Red]

These brain dead fucks are for real