Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

I rescued my son

Very pleased to hear that.

 

[ska invita]

25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

President Clinton's tenure was characterized by economic prosperity and financial deregulation, which in many ways set the stage for the excesses of recent years. Among his biggest strokes of...

content.time.com

Glass-Steagall Act

 

[Dogsauce]

I was trying to pinpoint the begining of the decline into sideshow the other day, and its either iraq or rwanda. LofN was the failure to stop italy invading ethiopia and deposing sellasi

I think Iraq has a lot to blame. All the shit Putin is doing in Ukraine he can do with a straight face because there are precedents set by an American-led coalition that he could point to. Invading a country after exaggerating the threat they pose? Mistreatment and humiliation of POWs? ‘Shock and awe’ bombing of cities and infrastructure? It’s all there.

That and the constant failure to do anything at all about Israel’s misbehaviour.

 

[emanymton]

But all of this treats it as if this was a short term thing, a moment in time, simply a choice between Trump's horrors and a Democratic Party not quite getting it right but giving it a go. Well, yes, of course, it was better to vote for Harris, Trump is a rapist horror and is embracing at the very least a form of fascism. But limiting this to the 2024 Biden and then Harris campaign forgets who the Democrats are and what they have done to bring us to this point. They are a party of institutional elites and neo-liberalism, believing identity politics was a form of centre left politics that would somehow meld an electoral coalition together. They've departed from working class communities and lives. This isn't about what was merely a sub-standard campaign or voter failure. And yes, I'm talking about the leadership of the party (tbh, I don't know much about the internal and local battles in the party).

I dont think its short term at all, I think you are focused on the last battle not the next one.

But anyway, nothing we say to each other matters much, all we can really do is watch in horror.

 

[Cloo]

I think a lot of the shift is, as the much shared cartoon goes, people want simple answers to complex problems. And those 'answers' usually consist of identifying some less priviliged groups and making their lives worse so that those above them don't notice that their lives aren't getting any better either. But hey, you've stuck it to those gays/immigrants/so-called 'sick and disabled'!

I just wish there was some way to effectively convey to people that making someone else's life shittier won't make yours any better, and that politicians doing that are playing you for an idiot because it's easy to make things worse for people, it's hard to make things better. Also that although making people's lives worse seems 'cheap' as policy, it's always expensive because it will lead to more homelessness, crime, ill-health.

The other issue is, as John Steinbeck said, a lot of people tend to see themselves as 'temporarily embarrassed millionaires'; they don't want to pay lots of tax when they are millionaires. They don't want to pay overtime and have to give their workers lots of rights when they are in charge. They work hard, when they are millionaires they will deserve it. Millionaires deserve it. The world is fair, right? It wouldn't just let some shithead be a billionaire would it?

A lot of people need reminding they have infinitely more in common with any homeless person than they do with any billionaire and are far more likely to become the former than the latter.

​

 

[magneze]

I know some people don't like Novara for some reason, but this was an excellent listen: How MAGA Went Mainstream | Novara Media

 

[Protag]

Oh no! Unfortunately for the Democrats, Wasserman Schultz is still alive:

Disagreement as Treason: Tulsigate

You would think that after losing two elections to a reality TV star might lead to some self-reflection. Schultz belongs in the loony bin: personally I think the Dems are in terrible trouble. They might have to bring back Saint Obama at this rate. Talk about desperate. American politics will start to resemble the walking dead, arguing over trivial bullshit as the world burns.

 

[chandlerp]

Bring back how?

 

[pbsmooth]

thus i blame entirely the rabbit hole. i blame social media companies who have teams of genises working round the clock on how to make their platforms as addictive as possible. the pattern of links he was sending me, the type of links he was sending me, showed a once ordinary middle of the road politicaly chap, taking huge departures from reality. his facebook was a treat - pictures of him at the football, pictures of him with his kids, pictures of him fishing, year after year, then pictures of him at marches holding his fist up, surrounded by the most deranged lunatics that have ever graced politics in my life time. in my more scared moments i kinda scale this out.

And also the fact that it doesn’t matter what’s true or not. So all these people can be force-fed lies and propaganda. You don’t have to be stupid or crazy to be slowly influenced by such a powerful tool.

 

[LDC]

in the case of my best mate who i had known since 4, best man at weddings, etc, i just cannot do a material analysis other than it was during covid. he was not educated in the usual sense, but he was always sharp as a knife, reasonable, fair, humble. he was at the time a millionaire or near enough. The usual material/class analysis just falls down for me.

You say he was rich, and his position escapes a material analysis, but what was his work/employment BigMoaner? (I mean there's always also going to be individual outliers that do escape a broad anaylsis for this stuff too.) I think plenty of the radicalised (especially by Covid) were of the self-employed types who were fearful of loss of business/earnings when lockdowns happened. Gym owners seemed to be some identifiable cohort of anti-lockdown types (probably partly the health fixation played a part there too).

 

[Serene]

UK must choose between EU and Trump, trade experts warn. Pascal Lamy, former head of the WTO, says Britain will have to take sides if new US administration slaps hefty tariffs on imports, as fears grow over possible trade war. Pascal Lamy, who was head of the WTO from 2005 to 2013, said it was clear that the UK’s interests lay in staying close to the EU on trade, rather than allying with Trump, not least because it does three times more trade with Europe than the US.​

​

 

[Nylock]

And also the fact that it doesn’t matter what’s true or not. So all these people can be force-fed lies and propaganda. You don’t have to be stupid or crazy to be slowly influenced by such a powerful tool.

Elon Musk is certainly a powerful tool (in many sense of the word)

You say he was rich, and his position escapes a material analysis, but what was his work/employment BigMoaner? (I mean there's always also going to be individual outliers that do escape a broad anaylsis for this stuff too.) I think plenty of the radicalised (especially by Covid) were of the self-employed types who were fearful of loss of business/earnings when lockdowns happened. Gym owners seemed to be some identifiable cohort of anti-lockdown types (probably partly the health fixation played a part there too).

iirc, all the 'Health & Wellness' types were the most virulently opposed to lockdown measures and general public health rules at the time...

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

In what sense is 'siding with Trump's even an option here? Surely if he sticks generalised tariffs on imports that will include UK ones, is there any suggestion he'd make an exception?

 

[two sheds]

Haitian immigrants flee Springfield, Ohio, in droves after Trump election win

City subjected to false rumors from Trump loses residents integral to community over mass deportation fears

www.theguardian.com

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Anecdotally everyone i have talked to about politics recently has been saying some shocking shit...
Today, with neighbour (old codger) , i was talking about hastings, i went down to visit friends, him I "used to like it too many immigrants now" --me: errrr immigrants from London?
Chemist: chemists dont make money anymore, all to do with the rebate on medicine - so me, NHS is underfunded right? No, privatise it and stop all this international aid. Indian heritage chemist btw not that makes any difference of course.
Old friend, sound person...oh i love listening to the Telegraph politics podcast it helps me sleep...
Cousin haven't seen in ages, Im so worried about the state of the world - yeah me too! - they're shutting down free speech, trying to change definition of sex! me: oh im worried about the rise of the far right and neofascism - him fascism: it wasn't that bad actually, it was all to do with blah blah bullshit.
Saw my mum yesterday she was complaining about the budget being bad for business! WTF! Where did she get that talking point from. She just watches the tennis channel and BBC
Jesus fucking christ. Ive lost my sister to the alt right twitter rabbit hole over lockdown, dad long gone down there...fuck me. The water is lapping at the door now, hard

Yes, I'm considering ending some friendships. I always knew some people had some dodgy views, but now they've crawled out the woodwork with their racism, misogyny, and generalized hatred. The thing that disturbs me is that they don't see the cognitive dissonance of their views. For example, one "friend" suggested that he doesn't care about the 4B movement because he can always visit prostitutes. Yet, he often talks about how awful human trafficking is. I guess human trafficking only matters if you can use it to hate on your political opposition. I'm going to have a difficult enough time surviving another Trump administration without seeing daily posts like these on social media egging it on.

 

[moochedit]

Yes, I'm considering ending some friendships. I always knew some people had some dodgy views, but now they've crawled out the woodwork with their racism, misogyny, and generalized hatred. The thing that disturbs me is that they don't see the cognitive dissonance of their views. For example, one "friend" suggested that he doesn't care about the 4B movement because he can always visit prostitutes. Yet, he often talks about how awful human trafficking is. I guess human trafficking only matters if you can use it to hate on your political opposition. I'm going to have a difficult enough time surviving another Trump administration without seeing daily posts like these on social media egging it on.

4B movement?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

4B movement?

What is South Korea's 4B movement, and why is it trending in the U.S.?

What is the 4B movement?
In short, the 4B movement is a vow to swear off men. It is called the 4B movement because in Korean, the four tenets each begin with bi, which means no, according to a paper published by two South Korean researchers at Yonsei University's Institute of Humanities.

The movement specifically calls for the refusal of dating men (biyeonae), sexual relationships with men (bisekseu), heterosexual marriage (bihon), and childbirth (bichulsan) in response to what South Korean women see as a patriarchal and misogynistic culture. The movement is also known as the "4 Nos."

The 4B movement began in 2017 and gained more attention in 2019, amid a #MeToo-style reckoning in South Korea. Much of the movement has been built online, where participants call themselves "anonymous women" and share few personal details. It has no official leadership structure.

MSN

It came out of South Korea when women there were tired of the high levels of misogyny and abuse and decided to swear off men entirely. I don't agree with this, but understand why it came about in a culture that doesn't value women and allows abuse to go unchecked. Some women are calling for a similar movement in the US as a reaction to men voting for Trump.

 

[breadandcircuse]

Ha, well done that man! We know how much the orange bastard loves his UFC crap, so this must have stung. I fully expect the man to come out and deny it though, and back pedal. Still, he at least did it.

 

[tim]

UK must choose between EU and Trump, trade experts warn. Pascal Lamy, former head of the WTO, says Britain will have to take sides if new US administration slaps hefty tariffs on imports, as fears grow over possible trade war. Pascal Lamy, who was head of the WTO from 2005 to 2013, said it was clear that the UK’s interests lay in staying close to the EU on trade, rather than allying with Trump, not least because it does three times more trade with Europe than the US.​

​

Do you have an opinion on this or do you just like large fonts?

 

[moochedit]

What is South Korea's 4B movement, and why is it trending in the U.S.?

MSN

It came out of South Korea when women there were tired of the high levels of misogyny and abuse and decided to swear off men entirely. I don't agree with this, but understand why it came about in a culture that doesn't value women and allows abuse to go unchecked. Some women are calling for a similar movement in the US as a reaction to men voting for Trump.

Thanks. Makes sense now.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Thanks. Makes sense now.

My apologies. I shouldn't have assumed that everyone here had heard about it.

 

[Serene]

Do you have an opinion on this or do you just like large fonts?

It is very important news. I copy pasted from a headline, and it is in bold, which I think is easier to read. Bold font is much easier to read. Trump has said he will put a 60 percent tarif on Chinese imports. If he puts similar on UK then we might have to rely on the EU. Thanks to the Brexiters we might face even more price rises.

 

[Lord Camomile]

It will be interesting to see how Starmer plays things. Hilarious and horrifying will probably also turn out be appropriate adjectives.

You have to assume even Labour '24 would find much of Trump's positions and actions objectionable.

But, 'special relationship", plus just how desperate are Labour to not be seen as 'soft on Europe'? Any hint of cosying up to the EU in opposition to Trump will presumably get slaughtered from the usual camps.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Nutters to the west of us, exes to the east, here we are stuck on an island with Keith.

 

[Ax^]

UK must choose between EU and Trump, trade experts warn. Pascal Lamy, former head of the WTO, says Britain will have to take sides if new US administration slaps hefty tariffs on imports, as fears grow over possible trade war. Pascal Lamy, who was head of the WTO from 2005 to 2013, said it was clear that the UK’s interests lay in staying close to the EU on trade, rather than allying with Trump, not least because it does three times more trade with Europe than the US.​

​

hmm did Boris and his government not already spend 4 year licking the mahogany mussolini last time and got sweet FA


side with the EU ffs

 

[Serene]

hmm did Boris and his government not already spend 4 year licking the mahogany mussolini last time and got sweet FA


side with the EU ffs

Its interesting as former head of WTO says we do 3x more trade with EU than US, as often articles state that US are our biggest traders.

 

[2hats]

Its interesting as former head of WTO says we do 3x more trade with EU than US, as often articles state that US are our biggest traders.

Trade with the US is largest on a per-country basis (~35% more than the next nearest country), but trade with the EU is overwhelmingly larger on a per-bloc basis (almost half of all our trade).

 

[stavros]

hmm did Boris and his government not already spend 4 year licking the mahogany mussolini last time and got sweet FA


side with the EU ffs

It's hardly unique to the Tories or disgraced ex-PM Johnson. Every government I can remember crafts the "special relationship" narrative.

 

[kebabking]

Its interesting as former head of WTO says we do 3x more trade with EU than US, as often articles state that US are our biggest traders.

It's a sleight of language - the US is our largest single state trading partner, while the EU which is 27 states, but one trading block, is out biggest trading partner by a long way.

If you're in favour of a US/Trumpian/Brexity trade deal you talk about the US being the biggest 'trading partner', and if you prefer the EU, you talk about the EU being three times bigger.

 

[The39thStep]

It is very important news. I copy pasted from a headline, and it is in bold, which I think is easier to read. Bold font is much easier to read. Trump has said he will put a 60 percent tarif on Chinese imports. If he puts similar on UK then we might have to rely on the EU. Thanks to the Brexiters we might face even more price rises.

What makes you think tariffs of 60% on Chinese imports are a precedent for tariffs of 60% on U.K. imports ?