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Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

generally they dont out right lie and not often- they are disengenuous, they make sure they have wriggle room, they obsfucate and bullshit (and they kind of have to). How many policticians get done for "misleading the house"? (outright lieing) its very few becasue they are usually smart enough to not get entrapped - and fear the consequences of losing public trust.
Blair certainly mislead the public over Iraq - to what extent its was deliberate and how much was his messianic ego driven zeal is hard to say - but I cant think of any other examples where he did to that the same extent. And he was extensively grilled over his WMD bullshit - and it damaged him to the point where he gave up the premiership and his reputation is permanently tarnished. It is a cautionary lesson for other politicians.

However Trump (and johnson - to a lesser extent) spews complete falsehoods without a thought - so blatantly and frequently you get drowned in it - and they drag their oppoenents down to their level in the eyes of the public in the process. "you totally lied about x" "what about biden? he lied about x,y,z!" (when they didn't) . Net result - more and more people just go with "all polictiticans lie and they are all as bad as other". But they arent - Trump and his ilk are toxic and dangerous, they effectivley destory trust and truth accreoss the board allowing toxic untruth to gain creedance and followers. They happily incite violence and hate - there are enough lessions in history about how they are a different, far more dangerous breed than the standard smiling, slimey suite who govern us.

Yeah, I think a good example is the famous Michael Howard/Jeremy Paxman interview. You can see Howard wriggling and avoiding the question but he's trying really, really hard to avoid directly lying isn't he. For whatever reason, whether he thinks of himself as a truthful person or if he thinks there'll be consequences if he's caught out, he obviously really doesn't want to tell the lie. Now that's thought of as a classic example of political dishonesty, with some reason, but it's very different in character from the Boris Johnson approach.

I think that whole 'all politicians are liars' thing (and a wider reflexive distrust of most sources) is a bit of a cop out tbh. It's obviously defensive and put out as a sort of 'I'm too clever and knowing, you can't mug me off' sort of thing but it's really not. It's just risk averse and avoiding putting in the effort, and I think it can help create the space where the Trumps and Johnsons and the conspiracy theorists can thrive.
 
Trump showing clear signs of dimentia expert claims


pretty comprehensive. AS the election campainng kicks off youd hope that it will become more and more difficult to hide Trumps dementia. His tema must be desperate for him to avoid the TV debates- to the point where refusing to do them might actually be a better bet than having turmp on onstage for an hour being asked questions in front of a mixed audience . Bidens campaign should surely use this - jsut keep pointing at him shouting "HES COMPLETLY FUCKING DEMENTED!! AND ITS GETTING WORSE" - its not like they would be short of material. How long will he be having to attend the trial in new york? Surely a very hight probablity of him losing the plot there are various times.
I remeber seeing some clip of trump talking from back in the 80s or 90s - and the differance with is stark in terms of his abiltiy to articulate.
 
pretty comprehensive. AS the election campainng kicks off youd hope that it will become more and more difficult to hide Trumps dementia. His tema must be desperate for him to avoid the TV debates- to the point where refusing to do them might actually be a better bet than having turmp on onstage for an hour being asked questions in front of a mixed audience . Bidens campaign should surely use this - jsut keep pointing at him shouting "HES COMPLETLY FUCKING DEMENTED!! AND ITS GETTING WORSE" - its not like they would be short of material. How long will he be having to attend the trial in new york? Surely a very hight probablity of him losing the plot there are various times.
I remeber seeing some clip of trump talking from back in the 80s or 90s - and the differance with is stark in terms of his abiltiy to articulate.

Its outstanding to think that Trump and his family now effectively control the Republican Party - they have purged all opposition to Trump from the ranks of the party, which now acts as a personality cult for this deranged criminal. I don't think a democracy has ever witnessed such insanity since the dying days of the Weimar Republic.
 
Bidens campaign should surely use this - jsut keep pointing at him shouting "HES COMPLETLY FUCKING DEMENTED!! AND ITS GETTING WORSE" - its not like they would be short of material. How long will he be having to attend the trial in new york? Surely a very hight probablity of him losing the plot there are various times.
I remeber seeing some clip of trump talking from back in the 80s or 90s - and the differance with is stark in terms of his abiltiy to articulate.
It doesn’t matter - the core of the Trump/Republican vote will never catch sight of the Biden campaign, other than out-of-context or manipulated clips to malign it. They’re walled off in their own world, impenetrable to any other messages. This is the world now.
 
It doesn’t matter - the core of the Trump/Republican vote will never catch sight of the Biden campaign, other than out-of-context or manipulated clips to malign it. They’re walled off in their own world, impenetrable to any other messages. This is the world now.
its does matter becasue Trump needs more than just his headbanging base to win.
 
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Surely outing - and endangering - jurors like this is a crime?

I don't think there were any restrictions on reporting what was said in court before today, when the judge told reporters off for not using common sense and barred them from reporting on jurors' employment, Fox were probably the worst but they weren't the only outlet being criticised

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Shit, somebody set himself on fire outside the Trump trial courthouse - he doesn't seem to have had strong pro or anti-Trump beliefs, he scattered pamphlets with links to a manifesto that links cryptocurrency, Stanley Kubrick, and The Simpsons to a plot to brainwash the world

 
Shit, somebody set himself on fire outside the Trump trial courthouse - he doesn't seem to have had strong pro or anti-Trump beliefs, he scattered pamphlets with links to a manifesto that links cryptocurrency, Stanley Kubrick, and The Simpsons to a plot to brainwash the world


At least he was using the designated protest area
 

Donald Trump claimed on Friday that he has been stripped of his constitutional right to speak to the press … while ranting to a giant gaggle of reporters.

The former president took time before entering court in his criminal hush money trial to once again complain about a gag order barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case.

“The gag order has to come off. People are allowed to speak about me and I have a gag order,” Trump said. “They are taking away my constitutional rights to speak, and that includes speaking to you. I have a lot to say to you, and I am not allowed to say it — and I’m the only one.
 
its does matter becasue Trump needs more than just his headbanging base to win.
But even the ‘moderate’ base won’t be consuming political ads or watching CNN, that’s not where people as a rule get their info from now. I’d consider myself reasonably engaged politically but I don’t think I’ve had sight of a conservative party political broadcast for at least a decade, nor ads on social media etc. other than when they’ve been circulated by people ridiculing them. I’m not even sure I can recall what Sunak’s voice sounds like. Nearly everyone is in their little silo now.
 
Shit, somebody set himself on fire outside the Trump trial courthouse - he doesn't seem to have had strong pro or anti-Trump beliefs, he scattered pamphlets with links to a manifesto that links cryptocurrency, Stanley Kubrick, and The Simpsons to a plot to brainwash the world


Dead now.


Looks like he was a "both sides" conspiraloon...

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Oh dear. Trouble with the bond. Amongst other things it turns out the company that is underwriting it is actually valued at less than the bond itself; they are using a shell company based in the Caymans to artificially inflate their actual worth:


Poetic, seeing what the fine is for in the first place.
 
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