Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[pogofish]

I was reminded of this thread when I came across the following whilst looking for a replacement stylus for my mid-80s deck.

The Garrot Brothers - The Audiophile's Audiophiles:

The tragic story of the Garrott Brother surely ranks amongst the saddest and strangest in all audiophilia. As far as I can tell, beginning in the late 1970s and running into the early 1990s, the Brothers, twins it seems and based in Australia, produced a highly distinguished line of MM and MC cartridges.

Apparently, their work involved the application of some of the advances first pioneered by the designers of the famed London/Decca cartridges to MM and MC designs. Although they worked in relative obscurity, since their untimely deaths in the early 1990s (about which more later) their designs have been embraced and championed by a small but loyal following, mostly in Great Britain, but also in the U.S. as well.

Jerry Raskins certainly appears to be one of their fans, and so I am as of two weekends ago. Many feel that their MM cartridges represent the summit of that design type. They (the firm) also make a line of well-regarded MCs none of which I have heard.

Sadly, one of the twins was diagnosed with congenital and inoperable heart failure in the early 1990s. Rather than live in a world dominated by bad-sounding digital recordings and with interest in high-end vinyl reproduction reduced to a trickle (remember this was almost 20 years ago), the brothers and their twin wives instead committed ritual suicide in 1991 (I lie not.)

Fortunately, a loyal employee preserved some of the product molds and design schematics. An Australian holding company called Audio Dynamics Pty. Ltd. obtained the right to produce the designs and to distribute them under the Garrott Brothers name.

Based on what I heard at my cousins, this line of cartridges deserves much wider distribution in the U.S. Maybe you can convince our buddy NG to review the 2 models that currently are available from the Needle Doctor.

And:

The Garrott Bros were extraordinary characters and deserve their place in audiophile history. I first had dealings with them when i sent them my AT32 cartridge in the mid 80s for re-tipping. I think only they and a mob in Switzerland were doing re-tips/upgrades at this time. They sent me a wonderful letter - so wish I had kept it - where they deplored the terrible state of the stylus I had posted to them and begged me not to treat the upgraded retip with the same contempt. Never have I a felt so chastised! THese guys really were the audiophiles' audiophiles. WHen the AT32 wore out I bought a P77 from them which I kept and didn't install until years after their death. I have been very happy with it and am on these forum pages now because I am looking to have it re-tipped and wondering if the successors to the brothers legacy at Garrott Bros are worthy of the name.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I notice that fictionist never did come back to this thread.

 

[gavman]

who is the fictionist?

 

[pogofish]

who is the fictionist?

The resident "Audiophile" maybe?

 

[Belushi]

I do love this thread, one of my favourite urban pwnings ever

 

[Mrs Magpie]

 

[chemn]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

This.

I voted 'yes' btw, though music snob would be a better term...

My current setup is the right speaker of a pair of Alesis M1 active MK2, and I play all of my music through my M-audio sound card. The sound staging is remarkably wide and uncluttered (considering the left channel has been blown for some months now!) but the bass does tend to make my arms feel a bit bloaty Maybe I need to replace my SATA cables? I've also been thinking of isolating my listening chair from the floor as I think the vibrations are negatively affecting the non-linearity of my ear canal (mono system).

 

[chemn]

Also, what's your home system like Bees?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Oh my god it's back!!!

 

[pogofish]

Good threads should never die!

 

[ViolentPanda]

who is the fictionist?

An audiophile.

 

[twentythreedom]

Good threads should never die!

This is a good thread.

But pogo, more generally, should other threads be allowed to live, die and be born again?

 

[gavman]

You said "analog sounds more natural". I was merely making the point that to say such a thing is a value judgement, because you have other artifacts in the sound chain that will colour the sound. In other words, your perceptions inform your belief as much as any difference in sound between analogue and digital sources.

poppycock. that's the whole point of blind comparisons- you don't know what you are listening to.

 

[gavman]

i am most happy this thread is back. means i can get this off my chest.

q. what is an audiophile?
a. someone who uses their ears like others use their eyes.

why are so many blind people audiophiles?
because their hearing is better developed. they may not have actual better hearing, they just know how to listen.

hifi appreciation is elitist, so never going to be universal. perhaps that's why people on here don't like it. you can play a dozen people the same recording on a well set-up system, and maybe two or three will be flabbergasted, half a dozen think it sounds nice and the remainder not be bothered. it doesn't depend on how much money you spend; i saved for my first system whilst working as a kitchen porter, which then did me proud for over ten years. you can go to a half decent second hand / hifi exchange outlet and get something that sounds superb for £300. the only components i've bought new are cartridges for my turntable and replacement drive units for speakers. so it may be elitist, but nothing to do with wealth or income. sure, there are aspirational systems with stupid price tags, but the classic audiophile may make his own kit safe in the knowledge that it might cost tens of thousands to buy something better.

and why all the passion?
a well set-up system can be like a portal to another dimension. within a small room you can hear vast projections that cause the boundaries of your room to completely dissolve, leaving you floating within a soundstage in a way that would be familiar to anyone who has enjoyed psychotropics or just plain old post-op out-of-body floatiness.

when i was still living at my parents i would be immersed in something epic like 'the wall', and emerge blinking and disorientated to implore some family member or friend to come and experience what i just had. the response would be at best 50:50...some people would say, 'sounds nice' and show no further interest, others would remain transfixed for the rest of the night and end up buying something similar. it's just one of those completely unpredictable and highly subjective responses.

but deluded bullshitters?
absolutely not.
snake oil salesman exist in all walks of life, and since what makes a good system is hard to quantify or measure, especially in the digital age, you do get an awful lot of shite being chatted. sometimes the way listening tests are conducted can make things worse; if you listen to the same tune twice, back to back, chances are it may sound better the second time on account of you having 'warmed the system up'. drive units in speakers sound more fluid when warm, as do amps. so occasionally this phenomenon can lead to erroneous observations; i remember many years ago reading a column by a chap who suggested comparing music before and after he went round his listening room placing a single sheet of paper inside every book on his shelves...

personally digital playback doesn't interest me in the slightest. i bought my first cd player five years ago simply because of lack of availability of so much music on vinyl. i can understand the trauma felt by the aforementioned cartridge designer; the constant favouring of convenience over sound means we are denied permission to launch. cd can just about make your walls dissolve; the current generation of digital media really doesn't

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Oh god, has anyone got a wall they can lend me? I need to bang my head against it.

 

[sleaterkinney]

a well set-up system can be like a portal to another dimension.

 

[Crispy]

You mug

 

[Crispy]

Drivers sound more fluid
Wtf does that even MEAN.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Not this thread again.

Oh wait - actually I've come into possession of some quantum-adjusted copper cabling recently. The energy levels of the atoms have been tuned to specifically respond to musical frequencies and purify the sound. Special Urban75 offer: a grand an inch, minimum order three miles.

Just listen to it, haters. If you could actually hear music rather than being iPhone fodder you could tell the difference.

 

[Bassism]

Drivers sound more fluid
Wtf does that even MEAN.

hahah wtf indeed

I've just got my mitts on some new turbosound bassbins and an mc2 amp oh yes....wankfest

 

[Bassism]

Not this thread again.

Oh wait - actually I've come into possession of some quantum-adjusted copper cabling recently. The energy levels of the atoms have been tuned to specifically respond to musical frequencies and purify the sound. Special Urban75 offer: a grand an inch, minimum order three miles.

Just listen to it, haters. If you could actually hear music rather than being iPhone fodder you could tell the difference.

This threads a corker !!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

why are so many blind people audiophiles?
because their hearing is better developed. they may not have actual better hearing, they just know how to listen.

Then why do sound engineers, people who really do know how to listen (and are paid to do so), think that audiophiles are utter cocks?

Try posting this shite on ProSoundWeb and see how far you get

 

[ViolentPanda]

poppycock. that's the whole point of blind comparisons- you don't know what you are listening to.

Thanks for that typically gavman reply that has fuck all to do with what I was replying to, which didn't mention blind comparisons.

Oh, and only 10 months after I made the point, too!

 

[ViolentPanda]

i am most happy this thread is back. means i can get this off my chest.

q. what is an audiophile?
a. someone who uses their ears like others use their eyes.

That's one definition. There are many others.

why are so many blind people audiophiles?
because their hearing is better developed. they may not have actual better hearing, they just know how to listen.

So, their hearing isn't better-developed, their ability to listen may be.

hifi appreciation is elitist, so never going to be universal. perhaps that's why people on here don't like it.

Not at all. I don't dislike "hi-fi appreciation". I'm perturbed by people who take that appreciation to extremes and buy into stuff that has no connection to established scientific "laws", though.

you can play a dozen people the same recording on a well set-up system, and maybe two or three will be flabbergasted, half a dozen think it sounds nice and the remainder not be bothered. it doesn't depend on how much money you spend; i saved for my first system whilst working as a kitchen porter, which then did me proud for over ten years. you can go to a half decent second hand / hifi exchange outlet and get something that sounds superb for £300. the only components i've bought new are cartridges for my turntable and replacement drive units for speakers. so it may be elitist, but nothing to do with wealth or income. sure, there are aspirational systems with stupid price tags, but the classic audiophile may make his own kit safe in the knowledge that it might cost tens of thousands to buy something better.

and why all the passion?
a well set-up system can be like a portal to another dimension. within a small room you can hear vast projections that cause the boundaries of your room to completely dissolve, leaving you floating within a soundstage in a way that would be familiar to anyone who has enjoyed psychotropics or just plain old post-op out-of-body floatiness.

when i was still living at my parents i would be immersed in something epic like 'the wall', and emerge blinking and disorientated to implore some family member or friend to come and experience what i just had. the response would be at best 50:50...some people would say, 'sounds nice' and show no further interest, others would remain transfixed for the rest of the night and end up buying something similar. it's just one of those completely unpredictable and highly subjective responses.

Again, you're talking about perception. What you're not getting is that people wearing tinny walkman rip-offs can experience that same transcendent" experience. It's about the emotional, psychological and physical effects of music on mind and brain, not about what sort of system you use to put the music into your ears.

but deluded bullshitters?
absolutely not.
snake oil salesman exist in all walks of life, and since what makes a good system is hard to quantify or measure, especially in the digital age, you do get an awful lot of shite being chatted. sometimes the way listening tests are conducted can make things worse; if you listen to the same tune twice, back to back, chances are it may sound better the second time on account of you having 'warmed the system up'. drive units in speakers sound more fluid when warm, as do amps. so occasionally this phenomenon can lead to erroneous observations; i remember many years ago reading a column by a chap who suggested comparing music before and after he went round his listening room placing a single sheet of paper inside every book on his shelves...

personally digital playback doesn't interest me in the slightest. i bought my first cd player five years ago simply because of lack of availability of so much music on vinyl. i can understand the trauma felt by the aforementioned cartridge designer; the constant favouring of convenience over sound means we are denied permission to launch. cd can just about make your walls dissolve; the current generation of digital media really doesn't

Because, as someone invested in a belief system with regard to "classic audiophile" concerns, the current wave of digital media can't. For it to do so, and for you to acknowledge that would by psychologically-wounding to you. It'd cause cognitive dissonance.

And for all you say otherwise, Bees is still right.

 

[pogofish]

This is a good thread.

But pogo, more generally, should other threads be allowed to live, die and be born again?

You know exactly what I think (or you can go look it up as its already posted) and this thread is maybe one of the few exceptions that prove the rule.

Now go and tell me if any of the screed of repeat threads in the last few weeks have actually taken any discussion forward or answered any question differently from what was already here?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Drivers sound more fluid
Wtf does that even MEAN.

Well, if you analyse the function of the driver, and the wavelength spectrum it operates on, then I believe he's saying that the sound coming from the driver when the system has been allowed to "warm up" will sound less harsh than if the system has been switched on and not allowed to warm up.

Now, while the sound from valve/tube gear will "warm up"/alter as the valves reach peak operating efficiency, I can't recall any research ever establishing the same for either speakers, or for the sound speakers reproduce from solid state equipment, the components of which reach POE within micro-seconds.

I think he's being "audiophile" again.

 

[Belushi]

i am most happy this thread is back. means i can get this off my chest.

q. what is an audiophile?
a. someone who uses their ears like others use their eyes.

why are so many blind people audiophiles?
because their hearing is better developed. they may not have actual better hearing, they just know how to listen.

hifi appreciation is elitist, so never going to be universal. perhaps that's why people on here don't like it. you can play a dozen people the same recording on a well set-up system, and maybe two or three will be flabbergasted, half a dozen think it sounds nice and the remainder not be bothered. it doesn't depend on how much money you spend; i saved for my first system whilst working as a kitchen porter, which then did me proud for over ten years. you can go to a half decent second hand / hifi exchange outlet and get something that sounds superb for £300. the only components i've bought new are cartridges for my turntable and replacement drive units for speakers. so it may be elitist, but nothing to do with wealth or income. sure, there are aspirational systems with stupid price tags, but the classic audiophile may make his own kit safe in the knowledge that it might cost tens of thousands to buy something better.

and why all the passion?
a well set-up system can be like a portal to another dimension. within a small room you can hear vast projections that cause the boundaries of your room to completely dissolve, leaving you floating within a soundstage in a way that would be familiar to anyone who has enjoyed psychotropics or just plain old post-op out-of-body floatiness.

when i was still living at my parents i would be immersed in something epic like 'the wall', and emerge blinking and disorientated to implore some family member or friend to come and experience what i just had. the response would be at best 50:50...some people would say, 'sounds nice' and show no further interest, others would remain transfixed for the rest of the night and end up buying something similar. it's just one of those completely unpredictable and highly subjective responses.

but deluded bullshitters?
absolutely not.
snake oil salesman exist in all walks of life, and since what makes a good system is hard to quantify or measure, especially in the digital age, you do get an awful lot of shite being chatted. sometimes the way listening tests are conducted can make things worse; if you listen to the same tune twice, back to back, chances are it may sound better the second time on account of you having 'warmed the system up'. drive units in speakers sound more fluid when warm, as do amps. so occasionally this phenomenon can lead to erroneous observations; i remember many years ago reading a column by a chap who suggested comparing music before and after he went round his listening room placing a single sheet of paper inside every book on his shelves...

personally digital playback doesn't interest me in the slightest. i bought my first cd player five years ago simply because of lack of availability of so much music on vinyl. i can understand the trauma felt by the aforementioned cartridge designer; the constant favouring of convenience over sound means we are denied permission to launch. cd can just about make your walls dissolve; the current generation of digital media really doesn't

I just enjoyed the way all the sound engineers on here showed you up as a mug.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not this thread again.

Oh wait - actually I've come into possession of some quantum-adjusted copper cabling recently. The energy levels of the atoms have been tuned to specifically respond to musical frequencies and purify the sound. Special Urban75 offer: a grand an inch, minimum order three miles.

Just listen to it, haters. If you could actually hear music rather than being iPhone fodder you could tell the difference.

Reminds me of a spoof ad I read in a fanzine once, where the bloke was talking about his interconnects, and how the wire had been submitted to high pressures to make the space between the copper atoms smaller, so that the electrons could move more easily along the length of the wire.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Then why do sound engineers, people who really do know how to listen (and are paid to do so), think that audiophiles are utter cocks?

Try posting this shite on ProSoundWeb and see how far you get

It's always seemed to me that sound engineers/sound-techs partly work on the premise of looking for objective faults, and eliminating them, whereas audiophiles believe they're being objective, but are in fact pursuing a belief system that says making an appropriate monetary or emotional sacrifice to the deity of hi-fi in place of objectivity.

 

[lunatrick]

I realise this thread is old and will not die but just read through all 17 pages of it and couldn't resist adding to it! I decided to knock up a quick guide.

1. Musical talent

This will shine through whatever it was recorded on or played back on. Listen to Aphex Twin or Bob Dylan for quick reference.

2. Cables mean nothing.

This is obvious to even the most casual observer, the most you can hope for is that if you frequently plug and unplug, more expensive ones are more durable. It's like arguing that more expensive mains cable in your house will make your kettle boil quicker...Obviously balanced will sound better at high volume due to noise cancellation, which as previously mentioned doesn't seem to apply to high end audio leads


3. Convenience and context

How many of us used to have a stack of seperates because we loved good audio. I know I did. I'm currently own (but don't really use ) a NAD 302, a Samson servo (studio power amp). Both have been made obselete by a Bose Ipod dock that sounds fantastic. Well apart from my deck setup that consists of a powered pair of fostex speakers and a fostex subwoofer. That said I can remember being 12 and REALLY REALLY FUCKING NEEDING a stereo to play my new Siouxsie or Sisters of Mercy 7" and my Mum finding some kind of mono gramophone type thing in the loft (we were skint at the time) that to me sounded so raw and loud it sent shivers down my spine. why? because the important thing was hearing the tunes in whatever way, the audio delivery didn't really matter then and it still doesn't....which is why MP3 is so big, it's just too convenient. (annoyingly i have no idea where that little deck is now) I can understand people really getting into the technical side of music but I'll wager that The Dark side of the Moon sounds brilliant no matter what system you listen to it on...

That said I'll take advice from bees or Atomic on which speakers to get the best sound from in my living room.... Some great posts on here..