Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[beesonthewhatnow]

This is a good one:

http://www.puristaudiodesign.com/products/accessories/sysenh.htm


It's a CD. That you play in your system.

"The System Enhancer Ultimate dramatically improves the sonic qualities of home and professional audio systems by utilizing extended duration CD-R, expanded and intensified algorithms, and a new de-magnetizing section. The improvements for the System Enhancer Ultimate work hand-in-hand with the shielding technologies used in our cables.

The System Enhancer Ultimate completely conditions all components (speakers, cables, and electronics) in the sound system by removing molecular stresses and residual magnetism while "opening" the system to perform to its full potential. The tones and signals generated by the System Enhancer Ultimate are presented in the optimal frequencies and amplitudes to perform the enhancement process completely in the shortest possible time"

$150

 

[ViolentPanda]

ahem
listening to music is all about creating an illusion., the illusion that there are musicians in the room with you. and vinyl is able to do a more convincing job than cd.

But this is at least partly because you expect it to. Ultimately, our "hearing experiences" are subjective. Different people hear the same music differently. Not vastly differently, but differently nontheless.

it doesn't matter that cd gives a better measured response if the result is less convincing than vinyl, which it is.
this has long been the prevailing view in high end audio, which is why high end turntables continue to be developed and released, and remain the choice of the serious audiophile across the world

Nothing to do with companies that produce goods wishing to sell those goods, then?

 

[Crispy]

the manufacturers must know it's bullshit, right?

 

[ViolentPanda]

all current mediums have inherent flaws. why is it a good idea to convert a wave into a pulse?
analog just sounds more natural

With respect, feeding a CD output through a valve amp will make make it sound "more natural". What you're talking about is colouration (or lack of it). Your amp and speakers will all have some influence on how you hear the signal, whether the source is an analogue or digital storage medium.

 

[BigTom]

the manufacturers must know it's bullshit, right?

probably, but they might just be as deluded as the people who buy the stuff

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

the manufacturers must know it's bullshit, right?

I think a lot of the really batshit stuff is basically one man operations, I guess some of them must honestly believe in the crap they put out. It's pretty similar to a lot of the healthcare quackery that the likes of Jazzz are so fond of.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

This is a good one:

http://www.puristaudiodesign.com/products/accessories/sysenh.htm


It's a CD. That you play in your system.

"The System Enhancer Ultimate dramatically improves the sonic qualities of home and professional audio systems by utilizing extended duration CD-R, expanded and intensified algorithms, and a new de-magnetizing section. The improvements for the System Enhancer Ultimate work hand-in-hand with the shielding technologies used in our cables.

The System Enhancer Ultimate completely conditions all components (speakers, cables, and electronics) in the sound system by removing molecular stresses and residual magnetism while "opening" the system to perform to its full potential. The tones and signals generated by the System Enhancer Ultimate are presented in the optimal frequencies and amplitudes to perform the enhancement process completely in the shortest possible time"

$150

"we are able to do the unthinkable: to further reduce the break-in time from 24 hours to 5 hours!"

I never believed it would be possible! Where is my credit card.

 

[teuchter]

the manufacturers must know it's bullshit, right?

Richer Sounds are quite clever. You can borrow a case from them that has various different interconnects, ranging from cheap to expensive. They say, don't just take our word for it that interconnects make a difference - listen for yourself and make your own mind up!

It's quite a good tactic - it makes semi-sceptical people think that it must be true, otherwise they wouldn't offer the chance for people to see through the sham. And once they believe it's probably true, of course, they take it home and as a result reckon they hear a difference. So, Richer Sounds manages to sell the rip-off interconnects but simultaneously avoid any accusation of deceptive advertising!

 

[Orang Utan]

arf: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2010/08/18/can-sata-cables-make-your-music-sound-better/

 

[stupid dogbot]

He might be a HiFi journalist, but what he knows about digital data transmission is zero.

Maybe he had magic cables...

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Has anyone ever taken these guys to court? They must know they are selling snake oil and that their mumbo jumbo means nothing. It is in fact a straight up con. Surely they cannot be allowed to trade without some kind of test or something? Surely they are breaching the trade descriptions act?

Who loses though really? Look at this thread - you couldn't buy that sense of self-satisfaction if you bought yourself a yacht. They get great value for money.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

http://www.cabletower.com/

 

[teuchter]

Have just received this email:

P.W.B. Electronics - Re: The Improved P.W.B. “DigiPlus” device.



Hello everyone,



The P.W.B. “DigiPlus” device is a device we have had for quite a number of years. However, in sourcing new Infra Red devices we have now been able to improve its performance further. We feel that the improvements in the sound, which can be gained by inserting such devices, has been very much underappreciated - even by us.











We have been able to still maintain the price of the “DigiPlus” at £45 (UK pounds). Inclusive of Post and Packing.





Over a year ago we suspended our Euro and US dollar Price Lists because the exchange rate of the UK pound against other currencies was fluctuating on a daily basis.

The situation is still not stable enough to re-introduce a Price List in other currencies.



Therefore we would continue to ask that when ordering our products would you please work out your Country’s currency/UK Pound exchange rate which is prevalent at the time of ordering. Or request a price, on any P.W.B product, by e-mail.



As an example. As of today (20th August 2010) the price of the P.W.B. “DigiPlus” device would be 58 Euros and 73 US dollars.



Kind Regards,

May Belt.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

What is it? A phono socket with a cable tie around it? I'll do you one for a £20.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Looks like the really expensive cables aren't even very well made:

http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2097



(bear in mind the above article was written by a guy who published an article saying that he heard an improvement in the audio from his PC by changing the SATA cables on the hard drive )

 

[Apathy]

well finally got my NAD c320bee amp. i can deffo notice the difference from my old kenwood amp... first tune i stuck on was LFO - Nurture cos the sub bass is really heavy and before when i played that tune it was just horrible, but i didnt know if it was my speakers (second hand b&w 601's) or the amp that made it sound like a distorted fart. now ive set up the NAD amp, everythings fine and sounding sweet so im buzzing, especially now i know i dont need to replace the speakers

 

[gavman]

"we are able to do the unthinkable: to further reduce the break-in time from 24 hours to 5 hours!"

I never believed it would be possible! Where is my credit card.

when working in hi-fi retail most new components required 'running in' in order to sound their best.
for example, speakers would be placed, facing each other, a couple of inches apart and then left playing the radio all day.
the product you are all laughing at appears to just makes this process quicker by playing selected tones that will work the components harder / more evenly. i can see how this would be useful in a retail environment

 

[gavman]

With respect, feeding a CD output through a valve amp will make make it sound "more natural". What you're talking about is colouration (or lack of it). Your amp and speakers will all have some influence on how you hear the signal, whether the source is an analogue or digital storage medium.

i'm not sure we're disagreeing?
amp and speakers clearly make a massive difference to what you hear / experience.
regarding valves, i use a valve pre-amp for both analog and digital sources, although vinyl can work just as well with a well designed solid state pre-amp ime. cd rarely does, it seems to require valves to make the sound more 'natural'

 

[gavman]

well finally got my NAD c320bee amp. i can deffo notice the difference from my old kenwood amp... first tune i stuck on was LFO - Nurture cos the sub bass is really heavy and before when i played that tune it was just horrible, but i didnt know if it was my speakers (second hand b&w 601's) or the amp that made it sound like a distorted fart. now ive set up the NAD amp, everythings fine and sounding sweet so im buzzing, especially now i know i dont need to replace the speakers

i used to work for the chap who designed nad amps (and owned the company), malcolm blockley. the project he was then working on never came to fruition, unfortunately; an intergrated, 30wpc valve amp branded 'amc'

 

[gavman]

an invitation to the thread smartarses then; perhaps explain why this is all bollocks:

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi?

and perhaps why these don't work:

http://www.sonoris.co.kr/review/reviews/audioadv/aa_phx.htm

while the hifi trade has more than it's fair share of snake oil salesmen, and the digital age has only increased that number, it is possible to experience things through a well designed system that you would not have previously believed- out of body experiences, a huge soundstage with things happening behind the listener and individual images picked out clearly within, that feeling of looking directly into the music... and diy is probably the best route to travel to attain that

and on speaker cables, does it make no sense to have speaker cable that is the same as the internal wiring of the speakers? and that wiring is the same as in your turntable and arm? or do all materials behave identically when it comes to passing a signal down their lengths?

regarding fulfillment of expectations, i have been disappointed many times when i have bought / traded a new components to 'fix' an issue, or just to upgrade....and the system sounds worse as a result. often that can be just a case of getting used to a different presentation, or it may be that you have upset some of the synergy you previously had. a bright sounding amp mated to bright sounding speakers might sound awful; the same amp with different speakers may sound sublime. cables are just one means of 'tuning' the sound of a system without changing major components.
and it should be noted you don't have to be a cable freak to appreciate good sound, and even within audiophile circles many are equally skeptical about some of the more lurid claims made by some manufacturers

 

[teuchter]

when working in hi-fi retail most new components required 'running in' in order to sound their best.
for example, speakers would be placed, facing each other, a couple of inches apart and then left playing the radio all day.
the product you are all laughing at appears to just makes this process quicker by playing selected tones that will work the components harder / more evenly. i can see how this would be useful in a retail environment

Have you read the description of what that CD is supposed to do? It claims to "run in" cables and electronics and talks about "removing molecular stresses". Do you know what that means?

Of course it might make sense to "run in" speakers because they have mechanical components.

But using a CD to run in cables by "removing molecular stresses"? Come on

 

[gavman]

sounds like technobabble to me. but amplifiers and turntable cartridges do also require 'running in'
i claim no expertise when it comes to digital- i only acquired my first cd player 5 years ago. however with analog i never cease to be amazed how subtle changes can make substantial differences. i have a dedicated mains spur for my system that also allows me to turn off all the other sockets in my home, including central heating, fridge, etc.
there is a noticeable improvement in sound when i turn everything else off, akin to how my system improves after it has been running for three or four hours

 

[Mrs Magpie]

It does depend what you mean by audiophile. There's no TV in the house but there are dozens of musical instruments of many types and a radio in every room. The audio equipment isn't expensive or techie (unless you count the amplifiers for the guitars).

 

[teuchter]

sounds like technobabble to me. but amplifiers and turntable cartridges do also require 'running in'
i claim no expertise when it comes to digital- i only acquired my first cd player 5 years ago. however with analog i never cease to be amazed how subtle changes can make substantial differences.

I never cease to be amazed by the pervasiveness of the placebo effect

 

[gavman]

some of the best musicians / songwriters are anti-hi-fi, and with good reason. damon albarn doesn't require expensive equipment to communicate his genius- his melodies work just fine as they are, with no need to hide behind flash equipment or effects
however
i'd love it if he did take a bit more care / pride in the end sound. but that's not what he's about- that's pink floyd's department

and then you get people like fluke,
artists who create the most stupendously huge soundstages imaginable, that allow you to sit in a space whose dimensions couldn't possibly fit in your listening room and hear unnatural sounds that bear more in common with opening black holes than conventional instruments, to me this is the point of hifi, or being an audiophile, or whatever derogatory term people wish to use

i have to say, i don't understand the haters. audiophiles are quite happy in their own little worlds, not hurting anyone or imposing their world view on anyone else, how many people can honestly say that? we're not even relentless consumers- most of my kit is twenty years old, and i expect another twenty years service as i maintain it.

 

[gavman]

I never cease to be amazed by the pervasiveness of the placebo effect

care to elaborate?

 

[gavman]

the two most effective tools for improving the sound of any system are a tape measure and a spirit level

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Doesn't make an iota of difference to any musical instrument I know of

 

[gavman]

i'm talking about reproduced music, as opposed to played live, as you well know

 

[teuchter]

I absolutely appreciate good sound systems, whether it's at home or in a club or wherever, and I avoid listening to music on crappy setups about which I can be pretty snobbish if I want to be. A few years ago I went through a period of getting taken in a bit by some of the nonsense some (and only some) hi-fi enthusiasts subscribe to. I've bought "high quality" interconnects and taken them home and tried them, and convinced myself they make a difference, but have come to realise that really I just wanted them to make a difference (having spent money on them) and that really, there isn't any difference at all.

On the other hand, I have spent money on good speakers and the difference is real and obvious. As far as amplifiers are concerned, I remain open minded but am sceptical that they make nearly as much difference as some claim (assuming they are suitably matched to the speakers, obviously). I do accept that valve amps make a difference; this is not surprising as they work in a different way to transistor amps.

I'll also admit to being attracted to unusual equipment for novelty or aesthetic value, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a certain element of enjoying hifi stuff on these grounds. Also, if people really want to spend money on expensive cables and what have you, that's up to them of course but I think you can get caught up in a futile and expensive effort to reach some sort of perfection that just doesn't exist, and then you stop even being able to enjoy listening to music because there's always something that isn't quite right or that you can't help yourself from tinkering with. At the point where I realised that a large proportion of stuff written about hifi is just nonsense, I started actually listening to music again.

I'm not sure how you want me to elaborate on the placebo effect - it's a phenomenon mainly referred to in a medical context where it means that if you expect something to do you good, it often will, even if it has no active ingredient. So taking a sugar pill might stop your headache or whatever. In medical contexts blind testing is the main way in which this effect is revealed. It's similar with hifi - if you spend some money on soem cables that someone's told you will make your system sound better, than it's quite likely that you will think it has. But under blind testing you almost certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You might say who cares - if I think it sounds better then that's me satisfied, and fair enough if you want to go ahead on that basis but I'd say it's a very expensive way of gaining a very small improvement and frankly the money could be spent to much greater benefit elsewhere.