Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[gavman]

.

 

[xenon]

lots of people who've spent fortunes upgrading to surround sound find that stereo is the best for music. i've never compared like for like, so wouldn't know. but the grass might not really be greener

I was thinking more of creating soundscapes and just being able to be in the middle of a sound instalation sorta thing. Panning stuff round on the ffly. Bit indolgent. I should experiment one day. My soundcard does 5.1 but it's an awkward space to work im as it's all in my living room.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

so when setting up a pa, you run it as hard as possible straight away?
that must get expensive.

You think that whilst out on tour you've got time to sit around while the PA warms up?

Errr, no.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

the thing i obsess over is placement of speakers within the listening room.

This is important.

I'm convinced that a lot of the time the differences people hear when (say) swapping to a new cable is down to the fact that their head is in a different position to before.

Moving your head a foot to the left will usually have a far bigger effect on the sound than changing an amp...

 

[Crispy]

i leave my electronics switched on at all times. the pre-amp is valve

This is the only thing that needs warming up. You could always just wait a minute before listening - it would save you money.

If you could tell me exactly how (science) solid state electronics sounds any better warm than cold, that would be very interesting.

 

[editor]

because your drive units might not last as long as they would have done if you'd warmed them up?

So once again you are in fact insisting that speakers need to be "warmed up" otherwise they'll be damaged. Seeing as you've no interest in listening to people who actually use PA systems as their job, perhaps you could point me in the direction of some research that backs up your claims.

You see, I've used and bought rather a lot of PA gear and I've never EVER seen an instruction from the manufacturer insisting that I should "warm up" the speakers or expect a shorter product life in return, nor can I find anything online to back up this assertion.

 

[rutabowa]

i am an audiolowfile

 

[xenon]

This is important.

I'm convinced that a lot of the time the differences people hear when (say) swapping to a new cable is down to the fact that their head is in a different position to before.

Moving your head a foot to the left will usually have a far bigger effect on the sound than changing an amp...

Absolutely. I've bought a couple of albums on the basis of how good they sounded on a pub jukebox, relative where I was sat. One comes to mind, the Led Zepline album, Presence, sounds like they're in the room with you if you get in the right place.

 

[xenon]

This thread has got me wondering again how I can get my other sadly underused speakers from my dad's place in London sans car.

 

[Crispy]

how bulky?

 

[ViolentPanda]

so when setting up a pa, you run it as hard as possible straight away?
that must get expensive.

WTF are you talking about? Solid state PA kit can be run hard straight away*, just like you can push an internal combustion engine hard as soon as you've engaged the ignition process.

*Straight away being within the few micro-seconds it takes the components to reach peak operating efficiency.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i bought my current speakers and power amp from the lighthouse mastering studio in w london. the owner of the studio is an audiophile, as well as being a sound engineer. i have also sold kit to sound engineers
you sir, are the shite talking cock. not all engineers are audiophiles, but many are. try some of the hifi forums and you will see

Oh, the irony!!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

What are you on about? Do you think new PA systems blow up unless you take them for a gentle audio journey first, starting with some ambient bands, moving up to folk, then pop, and eventually working your way up to heavy metal?

.

I used to let my old WEM valve guitar amp "warm up", but it's not something I've ever bothered about with solid state kit. I wonder if gavman breaks his speakers in?

 

[ViolentPanda]

the thing i obsess over is placement of speakers within the listening room.

Speaker placement is rational behaviour.

if i see a home interior, on tv for example, and i see the speakers are the same distance, from the same wall, and a seat at the point of a triangle midway between, i think 'audiophile'.

Odd, I think "person who applies the logic of an entity with binaural hearing".

doesn't matter so much what the kit is, it's how you set the room up.

If it doesn't "matter so much", then why all the bullshit and bluster about blind tests, about speaker and amp combinations, about interconnects?

I'll tell you why: Because you've invested money and belief in the "audiophile" schtick, even though you obviously know, in your inner core, that it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as setting-up your kit properly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

so you don't notice any warming up effect after running for a few hours?

I'm going to presume that most of your interfacing with audio kit is in your "listening room". If it is, then most of your exposure is to an environment where most variables are controlled. The surfaces that the sound bounces off are fairly static (except perhaps for you). it's going to be very difficult for someone to hear such an effect in a room with many people in it, people who are moving.

Also, you say your pre-amp is valve. Have you considered investigating the (well-quantified) colouration valves can contribute once they've reached their optimal operating temperature, to see whether that is the "warm-up" element in your sound chain?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Oh my good there is another one.
Warming up speakers???
Not as good as the cable 'lifts' though.

Funny, speaker manuals have loads of spec about what speakers are capable of, and all sorts of sometimes ludicrous stuff that you shouldn't do (to cover the manufacturers arses). I have a degree in audio and music technology and 15 years experience working with sound in live, studio, dubbing, vo and mastering situations. I have never once heard of this warming up nonsense. Unless you mean valves (which surely only need five minutes max) or 'don't turn it on with the volume up full' (which is a completely different matter and instant).

 

[xenon]

how bulky?

From memory, they're about 120cm, tall and I reckon about 40cm wide, 40 cm deep. Floor standing. I could probabbly wrap them in bubble wrap, paper and get them curriored, when I've worked out where they'll go in my flat.

 

[xenon]

Even valve preamps, least for guitar gear, don't require warming up. Power valves in the main stage, a different matter.

 

[ViolentPanda]

in the past i admit, i have been guilty of showing you too much respect.

Gav, you don't show respect to anyone, you're far too egotistical.

regarding blind comparisons, that is how you filter out subjective prejudices, the like of which your post was addressing

A blind comparison only does that if you use "non-initiate" listeners, people who have no emotional investment in the audiophile belief system. That doesn't happen.
If your belief-system tells you you'll hear differences, you'll "hear" differences, even if your on-board audio-processing doesn't.

 

[teuchter]

So, anyway, I am planning to build myself a pair of these:

http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn.html

Just for fun, like. Does this make me a bad person/audiophile?

 

[Crispy]

Dunno, do they work?

 

[bi0boy]

Does this make me a bad person/audiophile?

Depends if you make them from plywood or gallium-coated Nigerian ebony.

 

[Belushi]

http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn.html

Your Hamsters are going to love living in there!

 

[gavman]

WTF are you talking about? Solid state PA kit can be run hard straight away*, just like you can push an internal combustion engine hard as soon as you've engaged the ignition process.

*Straight away being within the few micro-seconds it takes the components to reach peak operating efficiency.

so now you're saying it does no harm to rev or thrash a cold engine?

 

[gavman]

Speaker placement is rational behaviour.



Odd, I think "person who applies the logic of an entity with binaural hearing".



If it doesn't "matter so much", then why all the bullshit and bluster about blind tests, about speaker and amp combinations, about interconnects?

I'll tell you why: Because you've invested money and belief in the "audiophile" schtick, even though you obviously know, in your inner core, that it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as setting-up your kit properly.

i haven't blustered about interconnects, in fact i refererred to it as snake oil marketing ruse.
the only difference in what we are saying is you think audiophiles are irrational idiots who believe any pseudo-scientific nonsense. i just think they are people who love good sound reproduction

 

[gavman]

I'm going to presume that most of your interfacing with audio kit is in your "listening room". If it is, then most of your exposure is to an environment where most variables are controlled. The surfaces that the sound bounces off are fairly static (except perhaps for you). it's going to be very difficult for someone to hear such an effect in a room with many people in it, people who are moving.

Also, you say your pre-amp is valve. Have you considered investigating the (well-quantified) colouration valves can contribute once they've reached their optimal operating temperature, to see whether that is the "warm-up" element in your sound chain?

pre-amp remains switched on 24/7. i'd be surprised if the tiny fluctuations in current can cause any warming during operation, since it remains powered all the time

 

[gavman]

Gav, you don't show respect to anyone, you're far too egotistical.

when i first came on urban i was thoroughly respectful of everyone. this wasn't reciprocated, and i was upset (flabbergasted) by people's rudeness. so i went away and came back a bit firmer. this has been fairly consistent with the way i have usually dealt with being an outsider- you try to be nice at first, but people just take advantage of what they perceive as weakness and their own strength, relative to mine, in the group dynamic. so you stop caring what people think of you and stick to your guns

 

[gavman]

So once again you are in fact insisting that speakers need to be "warmed up" otherwise they'll be damaged. Seeing as you've no interest in listening to people who actually use PA systems as their job

erm..perhaps you missed the multitude of times i've asked you, as an expert, do pa's warm up? i do have an interest in listening to your answer, but you've ignored me.

i have quoted what a sound guy said to me, that the pa warmed up as the night went on, and combined that with my experience of blowing (domestic) drive units by running too hard too soon. if you are saying that you can run your pa flat out from the word go, i accept that. if you are saying that you don't blow drive units by running hard from the off, i accept that.
but, my main point, the one that has exposed me to ridicule, is that speakers warm up during use and that the sound changes as they do.
so, do pa's sound different when warmed up?

 

[gavman]

.

I used to let my old WEM valve guitar amp "warm up", but it's not something I've ever bothered about with solid state kit. I wonder if gavman breaks his speakers in?

yes i do. new speakers / drive units get placed facing each other, two inches apart, and then run at low volume continuously for 24 hours (radio)

 

[gavman]

So, anyway, I am planning to build myself a pair of these:

http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn.html

Just for fun, like. Does this make me a bad person/audiophile?

wow. that looks pretty cool. what is their frequency response?