Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[editor]

i have quoted what a sound guy said to me, that the pa warmed up as the night went on, and combined that with my experience of blowing (domestic) drive units by running too hard too soon. if you are saying that you can run your pa flat out from the word go, i accept that. if you are saying that you don't blow drive units by running hard from the off, i accept that.

At last. You've finally admitted that you were talking bollocks when you insisted that speakers need to 'warm up' or face damage.

I've no interest in playing along with your other goal-posting-shifting, red herring distractions. I just wanted to put you straight about speakers.

 

[gavman]

hang on a minute pal, you're the one who shifted the goalposts. i started out by saying that speakers sounded more fluid when warmed up, and got ridiculed for that.
everything stemmed from there

so, once again, do your pa's sound different once they have warmed up?

 

[teuchter]

Dunno, do they work?

I'll tell you once they're finished.

 

[editor]

hang on a minute pal, you're the one who shifted the goalposts. i started out by saying that speakers sounded more fluid when warmed up, and got ridiculed for that.
everything stemmed from there

Don't try and bullshit me "pal" with more of your deceitful wriggling.

Here's your *exact* words in response to beesonthewhatnow comment that, "the idea of speakers 'warming up' is utter bollocks as well."

so when setting up a pa, you run it as hard as possible straight away?
that must get expensive.

That is self explanatory. You are asserting that speakers that aren't warmed up are more likely to be damaged. And that is utter bollocks. You don;t know what you're talking about.

Wriggle away!

Oh, and I've no interest in answering your red herring question about an unrelated matter.

 

[gavman]

unrelated matter? do speakers warm up?
that's the heart of the matter

 

[editor]

unrelated matter? do speakers warm up?
that's the heart of the matter

Nice try, but you claimed that speakers *needed* to be warmed up else they were more likely to be damaged.

That is what you claimed, and you were wrong. 100% wrong, and no amount of subsequent red herring lobbin', goal-post-shiftin', topic changin' wriggling is going to change that fact.

Thing is, you've already admitted you have fuck all experiences of about running a PA systems, so quite why you're trying to argue with people who do is quite beyond me.

My tip: quit digging for fuck's sake because your bluster really isn't fooling anyone. I've no interest in wasting any further words on you on.

 

[gavman]

snake oil salesman exist in all walks of life, and since what makes a good system is hard to quantify or measure, especially in the digital age, you do get an awful lot of shite being chatted. sometimes the way listening tests are conducted can make things worse; if you listen to the same tune twice, back to back, chances are it may sound better the second time on account of you having 'warmed the system up'. drive units in speakers sound more fluid when warm, as do amps.

this was the controversial comment that started all the ridicule. nothing about drivers breaking, so no subsequent moving of the goalposts. the red herring you introduced, not me. people have taken the piss for me suggesting that the sound of speakers may change when warmed up. i stand by this

 

[gavman]

Don't try and bullshit me "pal" with more of your deceitful wriggling.

deceitful wriggling?
it's clear for anyone to see that the first thing i said, the thing that kicked off the shitstorm, is that the sound of a system changes when warmed up.
there is dishonesty here, you are right

 

[gavman]

Thing is, you've already admitted you have fuck all experiences of about running a PA systems, so quite why you're trying to argue with people who do is quite beyond me.

erm..because this is a thread about hifi ?

 

[gavman]

My tip: quit digging for fuck's sake because your bluster really isn't fooling anyone. I've no interest in wasting any further words on you on.

it will be apparent to any neutral reading of the thread that i have been considerably more polite and respectful to you than you have towards me.
fair enough, you don't like me. that much is obvious

 

[Bassism]

erm..because this is a thread about hifi ?

is it really about hifi ?

I think an audiophile wud use the term PA system

 

[gavman]

I'm going to presume that most of your interfacing with audio kit is in your "listening room". If it is, then most of your exposure is to an environment where most variables are controlled. The surfaces that the sound bounces off are fairly static (except perhaps for you). it's going to be very difficult for someone to hear such an effect in a room with many people in it, people who are moving.

i was trying to talk about domestic hifi, yes. the time i mentioned pa's was because it influenced my interpretation of what i was observing domestically.

 

[gavman]

Also, you say your pre-amp is valve. Have you considered investigating the (well-quantified) colouration valves can contribute once they've reached their optimal operating temperature, to see whether that is the "warm-up" element in your sound chain?

fair question, but i have had the same pre-amp with two different speaker systems, and it's only the second speakers, with the separate (passive) crossovers, that seem to warm up and improve to the same extent. it's either the passive crossovers, which i can't understand, or the possibility that the speakers affected have a lot more drive units than the ones that aren't. and there is warming of those drive units, in the manner of a bent spoon becoming warm at the bend, that reduces friction / resistance in the drivers. i don't claim to understand, i'm just trying to explain what i observe
i have of course noticed that the magnets of hard used drivers are warm, but since magnets work better cold this can't explain a perceived improvement in sq, can it?

 

[Crispy]

Can I ask what 'fluid' means in relation to drivers again please?

 

[TitanSound]

It doesn't mean anything because it's bollocks. My speakers sound exactly the same when they have just been switched on to when I turn them off how ever many hours later. The only thing that changes is my ears getting tired and needing a break, especially when playing the drums for four hours in a rehearsal studio with a 5k PA.

In all my years of playing live, DJ'ing and occasionally being behind the mixing desk, I have never heard of "warming the speakers" up. The only sure fire way to damage your speakers/amps is to not follow the correct procedure of powering everything up and making sure no signal is going to the speakers.

 

[rutabowa]

reaggae sound systems definitely warm up the speakers over the course of the night... or maybe they just turn up the volume, i'm not sure.

 

[Crispy]

reaggae sound systems definitely warm up the speakers over the course of the night... or maybe they just turn up the volume, i'm not sure.

No, I think you'll find that's the earth shaking mighty power of Jah.

 

[rutabowa]

speakers are made out of physical stuff, and all physical things change nature with temperature don't they.... same with guitars etc.

 

[ska invita]

used to be involved with a rig and it definitely seemed to warm up after a couple of hours. hard to know though, as the difference may be more people in front of them as time went by, giving the illusion of warming. + better eqing over the night

 

[gentlegreen]

What you need is electrostatics.

They do have to be warmed up, but only to get a decent polarising charge on the diaphragms - which may vary with age and humidity, but after that, the mechanics are so light and delicate and the drive is so well dispersed, it shouldn't make any difference.

 

[rutabowa]

used to be involved with a rig and it definitely seemed to warm up after a couple of hours. hard to know though, as the difference may be more people in front of them as time went by, giving the illusion of warming. + better eqing over the night

well more people in a room will affect the sound about 100 times more than speakers warming up!! i still think in theory the sound will change (probably a tiny bit) according to temperature though.

 

[TitanSound]

used to be involved with a rig and it definitely seemed to warm up after a couple of hours. hard to know though, as the difference may be more people in front of them as time went by, giving the illusion of warming. + better eqing over the night

That's probably the case. Where lots of bodies are involved the sound defo changes. Especially going from a large open space in a club being empty then packed with bodies. Bees should be able to shed some light on how this is dealt with.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

hang on a minute pal, you're the one who shifted the goalposts. i started out by saying that speakers sounded more fluid when warmed up, and got ridiculed for that.

And rightly so. Speakers don't 'warm up', they just don't.

so, once again, do your pa's sound different once they have warmed up?

They don't warm up g'damn it.

 

[rutabowa]

They do warm up, you can feel them getting hotter.

 

[TitanSound]

They do warm up, you can feel them getting hotter.

 

[gavman]

Can I ask what 'fluid' means in relation to drivers again please?

it's an adjective used by someone trying to describe the sound of their system after it's been running for a few hours
could also use warm, less harsh, less brittle, more relaxed, smoother

 

[Crispy]

What does that actually mean though? Sound and acoustics are well-understood physical processes. What physical characteristics of a warm driver make it produce a different sound wave that can be described by those words (which might as well be describing "turning the treble knob down a bit")

 

[Blagsta]

I'm certainly considerably "more relaxed" a few hours into a party.

 

[rutabowa]

i am not really/only half joking tho! they do get warmer, and that must affect the sound (in some tiny way probably) as the sound is made by a physical thing moving, and it will move in a different way depending on temperature.
i wouldn't want to judge if i personally could tell any difference tho, my ears are ruined.

 

[gavman]

What you need is electrostatics.

They do have to be warmed up, but only to get a decent polarising charge on the diaphragms - which may vary with age and humidity, but after that, the mechanics are so light and delicate and the drive is so well dispersed, it shouldn't make any difference.

big fan of dipoles myself. i'm into open baffles in a big way