Do we support Insulate Britain?

[1927]

If the achieved their aims it would make no difference to global warming! They are protesting against the wrong people!

 

[NoXion]

The demand side of things is not 'fussing around the edges'. It is fundamental to how much needs to be done on supply side, and how that compares to what is actually possible and sustainable. And also relevant to reallocating one use of energy to a different purpose, for example when having to deal with great reductions in the amount of liquid fuel available for transport.

I dont spend long seriously engaging with people who seek to diminish half the picture. Its absurd to be that narrow and misses the point.

The point is to reduce carbon emissions, or so I've been lead to believe. Improving the efficiency of energy usage can be helpful in that goal, but that energy has to be generated in the first place, and how that is done matters.

I'm extremely leery of the solutions being pushed which are dominated by demand-side measures. People should not be forced to downgrade their lifestyles because of the petrofuels industry's desperate push to remain relevant.

 

[Gramsci]

Account Suspended

Had a look at their demands. Insulate all social housing. Plan to retrofit all housing with no externalised costs. By which I understand this would be state input not the ordinary Joe.

All sounds good to me.

They emphasise Just Transition.

This would imo be good as it would lower fuel bills, create useful work and be long term permanent improvement to countries infrastructure. Progressive Keynesianism.

I've seen how green measures have been attempted to be made in my area Lambeth. I think this campaign has learned lessons from way green measures have been implemented poorly. As in Lambeth.

Instead of taking something away from people it's showing that green measures could improve ordinary people's lifestyle.

In my experience there is section of green politics who are moralistic and put transition first and Just a poor second. Even if they say they are concerned about inequality.

So I'm do donating to their campaign. Donation for crowdfunder is linked to their website.

 

[elbows]

The point is to reduce carbon emissions, or so I've been lead to believe. Improving the efficiency of energy usage can be helpful in that goal, but that energy has to be generated in the first place, and how that is done matters.

I'm extremely leery of the solutions being pushed which are dominated by demand-side measures. People should not be forced to downgrade their lifestyles because of the petrofuels industry's desperate push to remain relevant.

Part of the curse of fossil fuels is that there were periods of seemingly abundant supply which encouraged entirely inappropriate levels of consumption, waste, and a range of shit priorities and unsustainable activities and economic orders. And an entirely inappropriate sense of the true cost of energy.

There are all manner of demand-side measures which I will be unhappy about the implications of, and which will form a great part of the tales of woe to come. Plenty of countries have already faced dramatic political turmoil and disruption as a result of basic fuel subsidies for poor people being deliberately eroded. But that doesnt mean I will be ignoring the realities of how much consumption we need to stop indulging in. Rather the emphasis should be on equality and who ends up paying. eg people should have a right to a home that can be maintained at a decent temperature, an issue that must be tackled on numerous fronts including efficient use of energy.

 

[Elpenor]

A shocking clip here from the Thurrock protests. Having to get your 11 year old son by car isn’t an ambulance needing to reach a hospital, and at 11 most kids would be able to make their own way to school unless disabled I should think.

Video shows Range Rover pushing Insulate Britain activist at sit-in

Driver seen inching car forwards on to protesters blocking road in Thurrock as onlookers goad her on

www.theguardian.com

 

[platinumsage]

Why is it shocking? No one was hurt. They have chosen to sit in the road and chosen to remain there. If someone’s blocking a doorway and doesn’t move when I say excuse me, I’ll barge past them whilst being careful to ensure I don’t injure them.

 

[Elpenor]

Not sure you can drive over someone without injuring them, however careful you may be.

 

[WouldBe]

I voted No. I don't agree with how they are going about it but do agree that buildings should be a lot better insulated. They would do better if they went out and physically did some insulating.

 

[l'Otters]

Not sure how useful a contribution to the discussion this is, but anything with "Britain" in the title puts me off.

 

[NoXion]

A shocking clip here from the Thurrock protests. Having to get your 11 year old son by car isn’t an ambulance needing to reach a hospital, and at 11 most kids would be able to make their own way to school unless disabled I should think.

Video shows Range Rover pushing Insulate Britain activist at sit-in

Driver seen inching car forwards on to protesters blocking road in Thurrock as onlookers goad her on

www.theguardian.com

Block enough roads and sooner or later someone will try to push past you. It's naive to assume that everyone is going to be patient with such stunts.

 

[platinumsage]

Not sure you can drive over someone without injuring them, however careful you may be.

No one got driven over

 

[mojo pixy]

It's only a matter of time. It's all escalating, egged on by media and politicunts (sp?)

First person to get run down, odds...
Audi/BMW 3-1
White van 2-1
Range Rover evens

 

[maomao]

A shocking clip here from the Thurrock protests. Having to get your 11 year old son by car isn’t an ambulance needing to reach a hospital, and at 11 most kids would be able to make their own way to school unless disabled I should think.

Video shows Range Rover pushing Insulate Britain activist at sit-in

Driver seen inching car forwards on to protesters blocking road in Thurrock as onlookers goad her on

www.theguardian.com

I work quite near there in a newish town with lots of car-free foot paths and bike lanes. Barely anyone comes to the school from more than about 15 minutes walk away but there's a 45 minute traffic jam outside it every day because people are idiots. The wanker in that clip should be done for assault but she won't.

 

[maomao]

If someone’s blocking a doorway and doesn’t move when I say excuse me, I’ll barge past them whilst being careful to ensure I don’t injure them.

While I'm aware that our images of people we communicate with online are rarely accurate, the mental picture that post gave me is comedy gold.

 

[maomao]

It seems that far from being some unlikely plan to get their own homes insulated Insulate Britain were in fact cannon fodder hoping to be made martyrs.

Why aren’t we in prison, ask Insulate Britain protesters

Fresh wave of direct action is planned before Cop26 summit opens

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pickman's model]

If someone’s blocking a doorway and doesn’t move when I say excuse me, I’ll barge past them whilst being careful to ensure I don’t injure them.

there may be a very good reason for them not to let you pass, for example a great hole in the floor.

 

[bemused]

I support their aims, but their execution seems to be awful whenever they are on TV they get dragged into how much loft insulation they have. When I see XR are TV they seem to be much better at sticking to their core message and just hand wave away the silly stuff.

 

[MikeMcc]

The overall aims are good, but isn't going to happen. Their methods though are self-centred and counter productive. They seem to be doing it to make themselves 'look good', but in doing so all they are doing is upset working people. It's not going to win them many friends or promote their aims beyond those that don't already understand the issues already.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There’s infinite ways to disrupt the movement of capital that doesn’t necessarily piss off workers going about their business.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Dead easy - I don't support then, in fact I oppose them, because I find it easy to differentiate between the aim/cause and anyone who supports it.

I take the view that their actions - including winding up middle class mums in SUV's - are actually turning people against the aim, given that it would make them more comfortable and save them money on heating bills, that they'd otherwise be supportive of.

I oppose EU membership, but I think Farage is an excreciable shit, I believe in healthcare free at the point of delivery, regardless of ability to pay, but I think the NHS is a monolith of inefficiency and bad outcomes...

I attended an early IB meeting, & told Liam Norton that alienating people isn't a good way to make a political point stick in the mass consciousness. I also made it clear that with local authority funding the way it is, & with Tories likely to be in Downing St until 2029, LA funding won't get any better, so the retrofitting of council housing to Passivhaus or EnerPhit standard is a non-starter.
The daft thing is, campaigning hard - but not obstructively - to make housing refurb materials non-VATable would have lit a fire under retrofit in a way that blocking motorways never can.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Insulate Britain is a spin off of XR (and has sprung 'into action' because of the failure of XR's 2 weeks of protest during the summer). Blocking roads is counter-productive and rightly enrages people. These activists, just like XR, are mainly white middle class folks, which is why they were initially treated with kid gloves by the police and I hear they were even brought cups of tea.

More effective forms of action would be occupations of buildings (such as corporate headquarters or empty commercial premises).

They are a wrong headed group and one that is ineffective and counter-productive. I, personally, do not support Insulate Britain.

IB isn't a "spin-off", although there is some crossover (unsurprisingly). XR is a much more "arts-oriented" grouping than IB.
& to be fair, most of the XR activists I know, wouldn't be stupid enough to block a motorway, as they've been at the receiving end of violence just for blocking a road junction!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Will no-one think of the middle class dads in their huge SUVs?

No. No, I won't. You can't make me!

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are already on the list.

Who do you think you are, ernestolynch?

 

[ViolentPanda]

100% support the protests.

In fact I think their demands are too moderate and - crucially - don't they're being disruptive enough.

They need to directly inconvenience/disrupt those in power & those with influence - perhaps throw a cordon sanitaire around Hampstead, & another around Wimbledon?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Disruption only causes resentment and has little or no impact. Economics has impact. Money. Wealth. Capitalism.

Depends who/what you disrupt.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Or smash up a bus shelter.

Gets you beaten up by angry grannies, that does!

 

[Edie]

Depends who/what you disrupt.

Yeh I kinda thought again about that statement with killer b responses

 

[ruffneck23]

 

[Artaxerxes]

Amazing reporting from the British media again.



For those reluctant to click “you can grow concrete” about sums it up.

 

[ruffneck23]

Amazing reporting from the British media again.



For those reluctant to click “you can grow concrete” about sums it up.

Beat you to it

Although mine was actually from talk radio