Diesel scrappage scheme - Subsidy to the middle class?

[UnderOpenSky]

So it appears that this has come to pass, rather quietly. You have to buy a new car and the government needs of the cost and the manufacturer meets the other half. Given that it only applies to you card is this the best use of taxpayers money. If you were in the market for a new car then should your purchased be subsidised. Is it even environmentally friendly to be getting 7 year old cars off the road especially considering that many of them may have plenty of years left in them yet. Even more bizarrely you can use the money to buy a new diesel.

 

[Pickman's model]

could you tell us more about this middle class bit?

 

[Teaboy]

So it appears that this has come to pass, rather quietly. You have to buy a new car and the government needs of the cost and the manufacturer meets the other half. Given that it only applies to you card is this the best use of taxpayers money. If you were in the market for a new car then should your purchased be subsidised. Is it even environmentally friendly to be getting 7 year old cars off the road especially considering that many of them may have plenty of years left in them yet. Even more bizarrely you can use the money to buy a new diesel.

I don't know how much government money actually goes into these sort of schemes.

Years ago I worked for a company who happened to be the largest car owner in Britain. I got to see how much they paid for each car and it was usually half the standard retail price. If manufacturers want to sell new cars, which clearly they do, they have a lot space to wiggle their pricing structures.

Then again this is also a great time for a manufacturer to be shafting a clueless and desperate government so make your own mind up I guess.

You're right about the embodied energy bit though, but someone has to make that calculation which is worst.

 

[mauvais]

If you go on Carwow or similar and get offers on pretty much any mainstream new car, you will immediately get 15-20% off list price without doing anything. That's a build out of the factory to your spec. That's the immediately available margin that the dealers/manufacturer combination are happy to sacrifice for volume.

So, buy a nominally £13k car and you can expect at least £2000 off. Enter into one of these scrappage schemes where your worthless old banger grants you a £2000 'subsidy', and you'll not get that discount - or probably any.

 

[cybershot]

Being advertised on the local radio by me for BMWs, but the fast talking bit at the end says must do the deal before end of this month!

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I've just reread the article and I'm totally wrong. There was a government scheme in 2009, but this one has nothing to do with it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've just reread the article and I'm totally wrong. There was a government scheme in 2009, but this one has nothing to do with it.

((((underanopensky))))

 

[Teaboy]

Post first - read later.

Where would this site be without it?

 

[Dogsauce]

I don't know how much government money actually goes into these sort of schemes.

Years ago I worked for a company who happened to be the largest car owner in Britain. I got to see how much they paid for each car and it was usually half the standard retail price. If manufacturers want to sell new cars, which clearly they do, they have a lot space to wiggle their pricing structures.

If that was one of the lease/rental companies, they tend to get good bulk deals on the cars that manufacturers can't shift. The place I used to work would hire stuff for site visits etc. through Enterprise and you tended to get ever changing waves of shit cars. When the recession kicked in there were a lot of people carriers as buyers wanted something more efficient so manufacturers had a lot going spare, I would be cursing when some Citroen Zsara Potato would get delivered outside. We seemed to get a lot of diabolical Fiats, the 500 lounge stands out, in my memory, as does the underpowered Puntos designed for spoilt teenagers (metallic finish, jazzy looking dashboard, all mouth and no trousers, changing down to get up hills on the M62).

 

[mauvais]

Lease/rental companies are a good way of 'laundering' unpopular cars onto the market - gets them out there and obscures both the depreciation and the price cut required to move them.

 

[A380]

If that was one of the lease/rental companies, they tend to get good bulk deals on the cars that manufacturers can't shift. The place I used to work would hire stuff for site visits etc. through Enterprise and you tended to get ever changing waves of shit cars. When the recession kicked in there were a lot of people carriers as buyers wanted something more efficient so manufacturers had a lot going spare, I would be cursing when some Citroen Zsara Potato would get delivered outside. We seemed to get a lot of diabolical Fiats, the 500 lounge stands out, in my memory, as does the underpowered Puntos designed for spoilt teenagers (metallic finish, jazzy looking dashboard, all mouth and no trousers, changing down to get up hills on the M62).

I still remember the rollercoaster of emotions I went through years ago at Glasgow airport when the car hire person said these immortal words: "We're going to upgrade you; to a Fiat Stilo'.

Given car hire people don't normally tell you the model I think it was a game they played to see customers' reactions...

 

[Dogsauce]

We used to call it 'spinning the hire car wheel of fortune', keys would be dropped off at reception and you'd be like 'what the fuck is a Renault 'Kaptur'?' then have to go and find it in the office car park. The relief when you just got a focus or golf and knew what you were doing vs. the stress of something with a weird name with a gearstick on the dashboard or push button parking brake.

 

[Fez909]

If that was one of the lease/rental companies, they tend to get good bulk deals on the cars that manufacturers can't shift. The place I used to work would hire stuff for site visits etc. through Enterprise and you tended to get ever changing waves of shit cars. When the recession kicked in there were a lot of people carriers as buyers wanted something more efficient so manufacturers had a lot going spare, I would be cursing when some Citroen Zsara Potato would get delivered outside. We seemed to get a lot of diabolical Fiats, the 500 lounge stands out, in my memory, as does the underpowered Puntos designed for spoilt teenagers (metallic finish, jazzy looking dashboard, all mouth and no trousers, changing down to get up hills on the M62).

We used to call it 'spinning the hire car wheel of fortune', keys would be dropped off at reception and you'd be like 'what the fuck is a Renault 'Kaptur'?' then have to go and find it in the office car park. The relief when you just got a focus or golf and knew what you were doing vs. the stress of something with a weird name with a gearstick on the dashboard or push button parking brake.

OMG, this...in spades.

I used to use Europcar regularly for work. They gave you a 'class' of car to choose, and I'd always go for 1.6 Astra. I recieved a 1.6 Astra on exactly two separate occasions. They were great cars, tbf. If I bought a new car tomorrow, I'd seriously consider an Astra. But mostly I didn't get an Astra.

Sometimes I'd get lucky and get a Golf or even a Skoda, but sometimes (most of the time), I'd get a fucking Vauxhall Annoyance or some shit. A 1.4 people carrier-esque bag of shite, that had less power than an Astra, but was bigger, therefore slower, yet didn't even have the people carrier advantage of more than 5 seats.

I remember driving from Leeds to liverpool with my foot literally on the floor and I was doing 60mph because the M62 has a slight incline.

Awful, awful cars. I'm not a car person, and I used to cringe a bit internally when people would criticise certain cars as being shit. I wondered what could be so bad about a car that they complain about it to people who don't have one. But these...I don't know how they were ever OK'd for manufacture. I can't imagine even my granddad buying one, and he fucking loves Citroen Picassos.

 

[Fez909]

Remembered the name...Vauxhall fucking Meriva



Worst. Car. Ever.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

We had an older model at work. It wasn't that terrible. Certainly better then the Micra of a similar vintage. We've got a 4x4 panda at the top. Which is totally and utterly gutless.

 

[cybershot]

I don't think I've ever actually been given the car I ordered when I've hired one. Luckily, they've always been something better at no exta cost, but then when I have hired a car, i've never needed anything fancy.

As for Vauxhalls, I'd never buy one in a million years after having to suffer with them as company cars for almost 10 years, their diesels anyway, are shocking. Whatever they did to their DPF systems on them, nearly every new Vauxhall we had, if it didn't do a significant amount of motorway mileage in it's first 500 miles, the DPF just failed on them, and they went trotting back to the dealer for repair. This was mainly Astras and Corsas.

The models have recently had a facelift, so whatever those problems were I've hope they've sorted them out, as they always tried to blart to us that the DPF wasn't part of the warranty.

Something that pisses me off to this day with car dealerships and diesels and I will no doubt see again on a facebook post of a friend asking why their diesel is suddenly flashing the glow plug light or why its losing power suddenly or having the fan going mental, because dealers refuse to tell buyers what's needed to be done to keep the soot from clogging up, or even asking what type of mileage they do. All the sales people care about is the sale, and don't give a fuck about telling you what is and isn't covered by the warranty.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Do estate agents tell you to get your gutters cleaned?

 

[cybershot]

Do estate agents tell you to get your gutters cleaned?

That's common sense, many people buying diesels over the last few years had no idea DPFs existed. They can cost upto a grand to replace and will go in the first few months if all your doing is going to work and back and doing bugger all motorway driving.

Yeah, you should do your research, and I always do, but I know plenty of people who have got wooed by radio adverts and just assume a diesel is the same as a petrol but with better fuel economy and well, because the govt and manufactures lied to us and told us they were cleaner.

 

[souljacker]

That's common sense, many people buying diesels over the last few years had no idea DPFs existed. They can cost upto a grand to replace and will go in the first few months if all your doing is going to work and back and doing bugger all motorway driving.

Yeah, you should do your research, and I always do, but I know plenty of people who have got wooed by radio adverts and just assume a diesel is the same as a petrol but with better fuel economy and well, because the govt and manufactures lied to us and told us they were cleaner.

We had a Golf blue motion. The Mrs told the salesman that she would be using it to take kids to school, a few small trips here and there but not often. When the DPF inevitably went 2 years later, they finally explained that it need to do 50 in 3rd at least once a month or the DPF gets clogged up.

We kicked off at the VW dealer for selling us the wrong car but kept doing the 50 in 3rd thing for a while until the DPF light came on in red rather than the usual yellow. Took it to VW who said it needed replacing and would cost 1.5k. Cue massive arguments with the dealer. In the end, they sucked up most of the cost, we sold the car and got a petrol qashqai. Much better for what the wife wanted a car for. Fucking slow though!