Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP.

[littlebabyjesus]

In Spain it has put podemos and now sumar in govt.

That kind of thing could easily happen here. At least it would be something to realistically hope for.

 

[The39thStep]

PR keeps Likud and the Israeli farRight fringe in power, it puts the Swedish Democrats into government, and it gives that vile Dutch cunt, who I won't soil my fingers to Google a seat in the cabinet of the Netherlands.

In the Federal Republic of Germany it kept the Nazi infiltrated Free Democrats in coalition governments for three decades after the end of WW II. As for Italy corrupt and criminal governments with minor parties pushing for their "special interests" for 80 years

Also got the right wing populists Chega in Portugal their first seat and therefore loads of TV coverage . I’m not against it however in the current political climate it benefits the populists probably more than the left.

 

[Wilf]

Piece by Chris Mullin (who, to be honest, I'd forgotten was still alive ) on the purges:

I’ve seen Labour stitch-ups in my time. But nothing as shameless as this | Chris Mullin

If MPs are scared of voicing an alternative view, then debate within the party will dry up – and a Starmer government will suffer, says former MP Chris Mullin

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pickman's model]

It does not appear that Diane Abbott "was ready to retire" when she posted the following message on Twitter (now known as "X") at 4.26 p.m. on 1 August 2022:

"Humbled by the support I received in my constituency to fight the next general election for Labour. Thank you all for your support. Let's take the fight to the Tories!"

It now seems that her 'retirement' may well have been invented for consumption by a complaint and unquestioning media by the Labour Together Party within the Labour Party, which is headed by Morgan McSweeney, boss of Sir Keir Starmer KCB KC, once the truth about the so-called "ongoing investigation and discplinary process" was made public by a BBC journalist.

(Source: Sunday Times)

Who's "gutted" now?​

I won't believe shammer's gutted until I see his entrails slipping out of his belly

 

[tim]

In Spain it has put podemos and now sumar in govt.

That kind of thing could easily happen here. At least it would be something to realistically hope for.

We'd get Nigel Falange as Foreign Secretary and George Galloway as Secretary of State for Education.

 

[two sheds]

Count Binface for Minister of Common Sense which would be an improvement

 

[ouirdeaux]

In the Federal Republic of Germany it kept the Nazi infiltrated Free Democrats in coalition governments for three decades after the end of WW II.

Were they worse than other parties? Genuine question -- I've never really looked into it.

 

[Wilf]

We'd get Nigel Falange as Foreign Secretary and George Galloway as Secretary of State for Education.

Government of all the talents.

 

[ska invita]

We'd get Nigel Falange as Foreign Secretary and George Galloway as Secretary of State for Education.

how many seats do they have?

 

[tim]

how many seats do they have?

Under PR, a system where the main parties are always scrambling around the fringes to get a majority, enough to get them a seat in the Cabinet and an input into Government policy

 

[Pickman's model]

In the Federal Republic of Germany it kept the Nazi infiltrated Free Democrats in coalition governments for three decades after the end of WW II

Do you mean former members of the nsdap joined them or that there was a deliberate entry of national socialists into the free democrats to sway its activity?

 

[Pickman's model]

Under PR, a system where the main parties are always scrambling around the fringes to get a majority, enough to get them a seat in the Cabinet and an input into Government policy

To get nazis a seat in the cabinet and input into government policy?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Under PR, a system where the main parties are always scrambling around the fringes to get a majority, enough to get them a seat in the Cabinet and an input into Government policy

If the tories could form a majority with them, which is far from a certainty. We live in a polarised society, so it's possible although the result would likely be unstable (not necessarily a bad thing - stable govt is overrated). But the tories already enact extremist policies anyway all on their own.

 

[nightowl]

I'm trying to work out what's happening with Abbott claiming she's been barred from standing and Starmer and co claiming she hasn't been. Is someone lying?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

the other strand to PR is that even more power is handed to party central offices, and local constituency parties become irrelevant in setting who goes where on the party list.

would the likes of corbyn and abbott still have been MPs on a party list system rigged by the blairites at party HQ?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm trying to work out what's happening with Abbott claiming she's been barred from standing and Starmer and co claiming she hasn't been. Is someone lying?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the other strand to PR is that even more power is handed to party central offices, and local constituency parties become irrelevant in setting who goes where on the party list.

would the likes of corbyn and abbott still have been MPs on a party list system rigged by the blairites at party HQ?

They'd be able to split and form their own party (or the right wingers could split!). If the UK had PR, I don't doubt that Labour would split into at least two parties.

 

[lazythursday]

the other strand to PR is that even more power is handed to party central offices, and local constituency parties become irrelevant in setting who goes where on the party list.

would the likes of corbyn and abbott still have been MPs on a party list system rigged by the blairites at party HQ?

But there are different versions of PR. It's not all just party lists - they're often only used to top up / balance the final result.

And there's no reason why a properly democratic party couldn't allow it's members to draw up the list! Just because we're lacking such a thing doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

[tim]

Were they worse than other parties? Genuine question -- I've never really looke

Do you mean former members of the nsdap joined them or that there was a deliberate entry of national socialists into the free democrats to sway its activity?

There was a deliberate attempt to infiltrate the party in the early 1950's by the Naumann Circle, which was uncovered by the British in their zone of occupation.

But after that the party was still friendly to former Nazis who wanted to reintegrate. The most prominent was probably Ernst Achenbach who was a member of the German and European parliaments until the mid-seventies. He was keen to let by-gones be by-gones. Probably because he had worked at the German Embassy in Paris during the war and helped plan the deportation of Jews.

My German is virtually non-existant, but the clip below seems to give some insight.

 

[Rob Ray]

I feel like people talking about how PR has put far right people in power elsewhere in Europe have underestimated what the likes of Johnson, Braverman and Truss represented. FPTP doesn't protect us from extreme right views, it encourages them to use the correct channels.

 

[GarveyLives]

I'm trying to work out what's happening with Abbott claiming she's been barred from standing and Starmer and co claiming she hasn't been. Is someone lying?

You can always try and work it out from here.

 

[GarveyLives]

Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it is awfully hard to get it back in

You said it:

 

[CH1]

I reckon Starmer has OCD - he'll be booking a private appointment with SLaM at this rate.
To be honest Labour would be better off ditching Starmer in favour of Angela Rayner if they want authenticity - and to connect to the electorate.

 

[ska invita]

I feel like people talking about how PR has put far right people in power elsewhere in Europe have underestimated what the likes of Johnson, Braverman and Truss represented. FPTP doesn't protect us from extreme right views, it encourages them to use the correct channels.

A coalition of Tories and reform has zero difference than current Tories other than more embarrassing tweets and recordings... I remember Bongo bongo land 80s Tories, it's just that

Archive: Tory MP Alan Clark makes racist 'bongo bongo land' comment

Ukip MEP Godfrey Bloom is not the first politician to be accused of using racial slur

www.theguardian.com

 

[Saul Goodman]

To be honest Labour would be better off ditching Starmer in favour of Angela Rayner if they want authenticity - and to connect to the electorate.

I'd like to see her in charge but she's probably not posh enough or right wing enough.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I'd like to see her in charge but she's probably not posh enough or right wing enough.

She’s right wing enough: sitting there stone-faced while cops dragged a grieving Palestinian out of a Labour meeting…..

 

[ska invita]

She’s right wing enough: sitting there stone-faced while cops dragged a grieving Palestinian out of a Labour meeting…..

Realpolitik

 

[GarveyLives]

Seems like Diane Abbott is important and maybe it's because she is symbolic for many of the things that are wrong with the party.

"Seems like Diane Abbott is important and maybe it's because she is symbolic for many of the things that are wrong with the party."​

 

[two sheds]

It is very strange because I'd thought that the first rule of lawyering was that you don't tell actual lies. You can avoid the question but you don't actually lie because lying invalidates your whole case.

 

[The39thStep]

I'd like to see her in charge but she's probably not posh enough or right wing enough.

I knew her for years before she became an MP . I can assure you she can become anything that is required in order to get to where she wants. More faces than Fu Manchu.