Davos 2009: Gaza

[tangentlama]

Shame we can't embed this one, but please watch it the YouTube video via the link.

Debate: What needs to be done to prevent the Middle East Peace Process from failing

This is the debate with Ban Ki-Moon (UN), Shimon Peres (Israel), Recep Tayyip Erdogan (Turkey), Amre Moussa (Secretary General of League of Arab States, Cairo) and is chaired by David Ignatius of the Washington Post (USA).

1:08 long, Erdogan walks off as Ignatius interrupts and prevents him from addressing Peres' speech.


Video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4zRbPy2kY
1 hour 8 mins long.

Object: Listen what they all have to say on the issue of moving the Peace Process forward.
(So will need for urbanites to have watched the whole video).
Then we can launch a discussion about the issues raised at Davos.

Rules:
Please do not engage in this thread unless you are prepared to have watched the entire video.

Please draw upon the wealth of internet sources available at your disposal to support your statements/opinions. Statements/opinions that are not supported by an internet link, for example, quotes of political leaders, citizens, statistical support, historical support, etc, are unwelcome.

Lastly, IF you find yourself supporting only one 'side' against the other, then do not bother to engage here at all. You will not be welcome.

 

[RhymnRzn]

Thanks for the link.

Listening to Moussa, Erdogan, and Moon, I gather that they stand next to Hamas to call to attention that these people have but one step between them, and death: and a fair point that is. Many of them are honed in on the icon of their struggle, being unable to freely access the mosque and sanctuary of their strength, and even their very existance and identity (as they would have it, with space to amend) are in jeopardy, as Israel have not counted those places to be out of shot, or their lives precious. Dove Peres sounded of hawk, saying that Israel had no choice but to carry out bruteforce, and so define themselves to be not democratic in the wider sense, and are willing to purge what was previously committed to the treatment of hirelings, and not true care-takers. He said that they had quiet with Hezbollah on the account of the blow they dealt, though it extinguished entire worthy volumes and infrastructure, to bring in their own abridgements? nay, they left a wake of destruction expecting to happen again. Would they need to be prepared to be so deadly about something supposedly so agreeable? the book of Judges says there was not a spear or bow found in Israel, when they offered themselves willingly: but this people study war.

The attitude change that needs to enter in is found in the old namesake of Israel, when they needed no repentance, if it is to ever be a nation behaving no, not as other nations, but better than other nations, which is essential in this matter. And not by using stronger voices used to speak to inferior children who were not around in the beginning, because everyone knows who and what has been there since before the arrival of forceful claimants, namely in Jerusalem. It takes wasteful princes in need of oversight, to be unmindful that King David was forbidden to build a temple in Jerusalem because he had shed blood: it was not until afterwards that Solomon was cleared to build, the idea being accepted of it's neighbors, again, not because David had annihilated his enemies, but because of the peace he managed compared to what backslidden Israel had before he arose.

The stump that was left in the earth, which has had its times of dormancy not causeless, can once again be a fruit bearing tree, but the tree of this grafting cannot be wild in nature, or without circumspection.

 

[extra dry]

Hamas and the Israelis sound to be just as bad and wrong as each other, peres is a very angry old man sooner he goes and his supporters the better.

 

[claphamboy]

Thanks for that link, tangetlama.

Certainly an interesting discussion and it reinforces my belief that there’s only one way forward here and that is to bring Hamas into talks, the situation is never going be solved by using force.

I don’t think Shimon Peres came across very well compared to the others that presented their cases in a very reasonable manner, whereas he came over as very angry and very much on the defensive.

I am left puzzled by Peres claims that there has been no blockade of Gaza, despite what we are being told by the UN, NGOs and other observers.

I am also left puzzled by Israel’s stand that they will not talk with the ‘terrorist’ Hamas, despite claims by the others that Hamas has indicated they are prepared to talk based on the two-state solution and instead Peres just quotes from the out-of-date Hamas charter.

This is made even more puzzling by the fact that Peres admits that prior to the original talks with the PLO, they were also classed as a ‘terrorist’ organisation. So, why open talks with one ‘terrorist’ group, but not another?

International pressure does seem to be mounting on Israel to bring Hamas into talks, so I guess there’s some light at the end of the tunnel. The question is, even if talks start, will Israel be genuine in trying to reach a peace, because the continuing support for building illegal settlements in the West Bank does raise a lot of questions.

 

[Fullyplumped]

...
Object: Listen what they all have to say on the issue of moving the Peace Process forward.
(So will need for urbanites to have watched the whole video).
Then we can launch a discussion about the issues raised at Davos.

Rules:
Please do not engage in this thread unless you are prepared to have watched the entire video.

Please draw upon the wealth of internet sources available at your disposal to support your statements/opinions. Statements/opinions that are not supported by an internet link, for example, quotes of political leaders, citizens, statistical support, historical support, etc, are unwelcome.

Lastly, IF you find yourself supporting only one 'side' against the other, then do not bother to engage here at all. You will not be welcome.

Congratulations on your rules. Even more that people have followed them so far!

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Thanks for that link, tangetlama.

I am left puzzled by Peres claims that there has been no blockade of Gaza, despite what we are being told by the UN, NGOs and other observers.

I am also left puzzled by Israel’s stand that they will not talk with the ‘terrorist’ Hamas, despite claims by the others that Hamas has indicated they are prepared to talk based on the two-state solution and instead Peres just quotes from the out-of-date Hamas charter.

This is made even more puzzling by the fact that Peres admits that prior to the original talks with the PLO, they were also classed as a ‘terrorist’ organisation. So, why open talks with one ‘terrorist’ group, but not another?
.

I think that we can conclude from that that Israel does not want peace. They don't like having rockets being fired at them but this gives them an excuse to use their massive armed forces at any time they want. Now that the PLO has lost support having tried to make concessions which were rejected, Israel needs Hamas as a suitable enemy to justify their military stance, the wall and blockades.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thanks for that link, tangetlama.

Certainly an interesting discussion and it reinforces my belief that there’s only one way forward here and that is to bring Hamas into talks, the situation is never going be solved by using force.

I don’t think Shimon Peres came across very well compared to the others that presented their cases in a very reasonable manner, whereas he came over as very angry and very much on the defensive.

I am left puzzled by Peres claims that there has been no blockade of Gaza, despite what we are being told by the UN, NGOs and other observers.

I am also left puzzled by Israel’s stand that they will not talk with the ‘terrorist’ Hamas, despite claims by the others that Hamas has indicated they are prepared to talk based on the two-state solution and instead Peres just quotes from the out-of-date Hamas charter.

This is made even more puzzling by the fact that Peres admits that prior to the original talks with the PLO, they were also classed as a ‘terrorist’ organisation. So, why open talks with one ‘terrorist’ group, but not another?

International pressure does seem to be mounting on Israel to bring Hamas into talks, so I guess there’s some light at the end of the tunnel. The question is, even if talks start, will Israel be genuine in trying to reach a peace, because the continuing support for building illegal settlements in the West Bank does raise a lot of questions.

All Peres is worried about is whether he can mount an effective stonewalling operation, hence the references to the charter.

 

[ffsear]

I see Climate Change is at the top of the agenda at Davos this year. He's a list of the private jets arriving for that one!

 

[likesfish]

Israel has nukes which is the ultimate trump card so nomstate is going to get into a scrap with them.

 

[yield]

Wars top global risk as Davos elite gathers in shadow of fragmented world
LONDON, Jan 15 (Reuters)

Armed conflict is the top risk in 2025, a World Economic Forum (WEF) survey released on Wednesday showed, a reminder of the deepening global fragmentation as government and business leaders attend an annual gathering in Davos next week.

Nearly one in four of the more than 900 experts surveyed across academia, business and policymaking ranked conflict, including wars and terrorism, as the most severe risk to economic growth for the year ahead.

Extreme weather, the no. 1 concern in 2024, was the second-ranked danger.