David Icke lecture @ Wembley Arena, October 2012

[TruXta]

why do you think it's misleading? who do you think i'm misleading? i was just forwarding the none-too-controversial idea that there are plenty of literary and philosophical notions about subjective realities - the idea that we may be living in a reality constructed by someone or something else.

It's misleading because Plato's ideas about the Realm of Forms is nothing like the idea behind the matrix. In the former there is no place where the Real exists in a physical sense, whereas matrix-type ideas posit that our reality is not the ultimate one, and rather there is some knowable Real Reality which one can experience. Not so for Plato. If you merely wanted to say that others have thought there are other, higher realities you'd have to go further back than Plato.

Thus we read in the Symposium of the Form of Beauty: "It is not anywhere in another thing, as in an animal, or in earth, or in heaven, or in anything else, but itself by itself with itself," (211b). And in the Timaeus Plato writes: "Since these things are so, we must agree that that which keeps its own form unchangingly, which has not been brought into being and is not destroyed, which neither receives into itself anything else from anywhere else, nor itself enters into anything anywhere, is one thing," (52a, emphasis added).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Forms

 

[xes]

There are other "higher" realities, and you can experience them.

 

[TruXta]

There are other "higher" realities, and you can experience them.

Mmm?

 

[xes]

Mmm indeed

 

[TruXta]

Mmm indeed

MmmmdMmmmmah?

 

[xes]

TBH if you want to play in other realms, you might want to start off on ketmaine

 

[Orang Utan]

Jeez, I was just saying Ike's/Dick's/the Wachovskis' ideas about the notion of subjective realities are nothing new and go back far in history. I wasn't trying to make a brainy philosophical point

 

[littlebabyjesus]

TBH if you want to play in other realms, you might want to start off on ketmaine

k and mdma

 

[xes]

k and mdma

depends on which level you want ot get too, don;t run before you can fly!!

 

[TruXta]

Jeez, I was just saying that Icke's/Dick's/the Wachovski's ideas are nothing new and go back far in history

Precision matters, ape.

 

[Orang Utan]

Precision matters, ape.

Why does it matter in this silly discussion?

 

[xes]

even in this "frequency" there are many realities. My reality is different from others, and you all have your own perception of what reality is, based on your experiences and knowledge accumilated. We all have a completly different world to live in from eachother, even though it is the same world. It is different to each of us. Does this mean we all live in a different reality?

 

[TruXta]

Why does it matter in this silly discussion?

It matters even more because it is silly.

 

[TruXta]

even in this "frequency" there are many realities. My reality is different from others, and you all have your own perception of what reality is, based on your experiences and knowledge accumilated. We all have a completly different world to live in from eachother, even though it is the same world. It is different to each of us. Does this mean we all live in a different reality?

Put that RAW book down, xes.

 

[xes]

In your reality, I had a book in my hand, in my reality, it was a spliff

 

[TruXta]

In your reality, I had a book in my hand, in my reality, it was a spliff

Toking on the tunnel eh?

 

[xes]

I didn't get the last reference, so I'm definatly not going to get that one

 

[TruXta]

I didn't get the last reference, so I'm definatly not going to get that one

RAW = Robert Anton Wilson. Surely you've read some of his books? The Illuminati Trilogy?

 

[xes]

I've never actually read a conspiracy book.

The closest I came to that was reading the holographic universe, punk science and a few astral projection books.

 

[TruXta]

I've never actually read a conspiracy book.

The closest I came to that was reading the holographic universe, punk science and a few astral projection books.

Huh. The stuff you wrote about different realities is remarkably similar to RAW's ideas. He uses the term reality tunnels, hence my reference to toking tunnels. Check out Prometheus Rising and the aforementioned Illuminatus trilogy, the former's a non-fiction book (nominally at least ), the latter is his most famous fiction work.

 

[Blagsta]

I bet xes would like Cosmic Trigger Vol 1

 

[TruXta]

I bet xes would like Cosmic Trigger Vol 1

I've never read those. TBH in the end he comes across as a kinda libertarian-loony Kant on acid. Funny, but not to be taken too seriously. That said the exercises he gives the reader in Prometheus Rising are kinda fun when you're stoned.

 

[xes]

Well, he's not the only one to bang on about alternative realities i guess. And the fact is, you can play there if you so desire, and you can to some extent, prove it to at least yourself. (by doing certain tests whilst there, like going to see people, check what they're doing, then phone them up when you "get back" and ask them if there were just doing xyz... there are other ways of trying to prove it, like going "up" in pairs, or more, and coming back with the exact same experience. ) It's all very strange, and about as far removed from what science can prove as possible. Which is why there is so much skeptisism about it, but personal experience will at least, open yourself up to the possibility of these other dimensions.

 

[xes]

I bet xes would like Cosmic Trigger Vol 1

fuck it, I'm going to start making a list of books that I should probably read. You've made "the list"

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Here's a list of reptilians.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/list_of_satanist.htm

Boxcar Willie?!!

 

[TruXta]

Well, he's not the only one to bang on about alternative realities i guess. And the fact is, you can play there if you so desire, and you can to some extent, prove it to at least yourself. (by doing certain tests whilst there, like going to see people, check what they're doing, then phone them up when you "get back" and ask them if there were just doing xyz... there are other ways of trying to prove it, like going "up" in pairs, or more, and coming back with the exact same experience. ) It's all very strange, and about as far removed from what science can prove as possible. Which is why there is so much skeptisism about it, but personal experience will at least, open yourself up to the possibility of these other dimensions.

You on about astral projection, or remote viewing? I've yet to see a protocol that adequately controls for confirmation bias and retroactive modification of memories.

 

[xes]

You on about astral projection, or remote viewing? I've yet to see a protocol that adequately controls for confirmation bias and retroactive modification of memories.

both, if you like. I guess both, if considered a real phenomina, could be considered evidence of other realities, or at least, extensions to the reality we know and can touch. But that's the thing, we can't touch it, nor measure it in our conventional means of testing things. But that doesn't really mean that it's all bollocks. And that doesn't mean that everything untestable isn't bollocks. Experiencing it for yourself, is the only way to see for yourself if it is real or not, other than that, you have to take peoples word for it, and that's not very scientific at all.

 

[faux pas]

As I recall he says in the book 'the biggest secret' that life was seeded on this planet by some aliens then later he says we all came from another planet called neberu. He also says a planet called neberu crashed into it's own moon and was destroyed but the debris later formed earth, however he later says this planet is in some crazy big orbit and will later come back and crash into the earth.
Our overlords live on the earth and control us, slipping into other dimensions or whatever. Later in the book these overlords actually live in the hollowed out earth and later still they are on the dark side (and inside) the moon.

It's been a while, so just for you I will give it another read and post up stuff as and when I come across it.

Sorry I didn't reply to this when you went to the trouble of looking it up (juggling internet with other things). It's hard to recall this contradiction as in your first paragraph: neberu being destroyed yet still orbiting. I'm not sure where the contradiction is in your second paragraph, though. I'm not sure why 'overlords' could not be situated in several places.

 

[TruXta]

both, if you like. I guess both, if considered a real phenomina, could be considered evidence of other realities, or at least, extensions to the reality we know and can touch. But that's the thing, we can't touch it, nor measure it in our conventional means of testing things. But that doesn't really mean that it's all bollocks. And that doesn't mean that everything untestable isn't bollocks. Experiencing it for yourself, is the only way to see for yourself if it is real or not, other than that, you have to take peoples word for it, and that's not very scientific at all.

?? IIRC the thing about RV was that it was indeed supposed to be testable. You RVed some place that you'd never seen before and couldn't know about, and then others could check your report and see if there was anything to it.

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry I didn't reply to this when you went to the trouble of looking it up (juggling internet with other things). It's hard to recall this contradiction as in your first paragraph: neberu being destroyed yet still orbiting. I'm not sure where the contradiction is in your second paragraph, though. I'm not sure why 'overlords' could not be situated in several places.

AS went to the trouble of finding you yet another contradiction:

As I recall he says in the book 'the biggest secret' that life was seeded on this planet by some aliens then later he says we all came from another planet called neberu.

and your only response is that you can't 'recall it'? Ok, let's take your word for it - does that situation as outlined by AS sound like a contradiction to you?