David Cameron suggest banning message encryption

[sim667]

I bet they'd switch logging on as soon as the police turned up with a warrant.

Thats assuming your vpn provider is in the UK, most are in france or holland

 

[joustmaster]

Thats assuming your vpn provider is in the UK, most are in france or holland

yeah, i mentioned that in my first post.
from my advanced knowledge on the subject, I'd imagine that would mean its practically impossible for the uk government to access the logs.
But that knowledge is entirely based on films and novels.

 

[sim667]

yeah, i mentioned that in my first post.
from my advanced knowledge on the subject, I'd imagine that would mean its practically impossible for the uk government to access the logs.
But that knowledge is entirely based on films and novels.

I think there's just so much red tape they can't be bothered.

That and the providers there aren't required to keep records.

 

[sim667]

Surveillance bill to include internet records storage - BBC News

Looks like they're pushing ahead with this one instead......

 

[mauvais]

Lost track of this one but we already had internet record storage under the EU-DRD. It was then repealed as it violated the Charter of Fundamental Rights (see link).

 

[Lazy Llama]

Lost track of this one but we already had internet record storage under the EU-DRD. It was then repealed as it violated the Charter of Fundamental Rights (see link).

So they're still going to come up against:

the blanket retention data of unsuspicious persons generally violates the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights

I wonder why they think that rule doesn't apply to the UK?

 

[weltweit]

This seems to summarise where things stand at the moment
Surveillance bill to include internet records storage - BBC News

 

[joe_infinity]

This seems to summarise where things stand at the moment
Surveillance bill to include internet records storage - BBC News

"Internet firms will have to store details of every website visited by UK citizens in the past 12 months, under planned new surveillance laws."

Use of an encrypted, foreign-based VPN renders this ^ completely impossible. The people who are writing these laws have zilch idea how the internet works

 

[pinkychukkles]

Use of an encrypted, foreign-based VPN renders this ^ completely impossible.

Surely for this bill to be effective, it has to legislate to outlaw the use of VPNs as well? Would that be possible?

 

[weltweit]

I just watched May explaining that the data they want is just a list of websites accessed, not individual pages or messages sent. So if you are connecting to Dutch VPN 001 it will just say, connected Dutch VPN 001 - she likened the info required to an itemised phone bill of sites accessed.

 

[xenon]

Surely for this bill to be effective, it has to legislate to outlaw the use of VPNs as well? Would that be possible?

Won't happen.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Here's the draft bill if anyone's interested:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...le/473770/Draft_Investigatory_Powers_Bill.pdf

 

[gosub]

I just watched May explaining that the data they want is just a list of websites accessed, not individual pages or messages sent. So if you are connecting to Dutch VPN 001 it will just say, connected Dutch VPN 001 - she likened the info required to an itemised phone bill of sites accessed.

Are ANY of our elected representatives from an IT background, or are they all PPE graduates?

 

[joe_infinity]

Surely for this bill to be effective, it has to legislate to outlaw the use of VPNs as well? Would that be possible?

It would be completely impossible to "ban" either encryption or VPN-type services. This entire media hype story is mere fanfare for gullible morons. If you want to use the internet privately and anonymously, you easily can. That is not about to change.

 

[joe_infinity]

if you are connecting to Dutch VPN 001 it will just say, connected Dutch VPN 001

Exactly. And if you are accessing the web via a TOR node (which any terrorist or criminal worth his salt ought to be doing), all it will say is "connection to random string of numbers and letters"

 

[pinkychukkles]

I just watched May explaining that the data they want is just a list of websites accessed, not individual pages or messages sent. So if you are connecting to Dutch VPN 001 it will just say, connected Dutch VPN 001 - she likened the info required to an itemised phone bill of sites accessed.

Gotcha

Won't happen.

because... ?
off the top my head - there are many legitimate uses for VPNs, i.e. companies providing them for staff to facilitate out-of-office working
but any others?

 

[gosub]

It would be completely impossible to "ban" either encryption of VPN-type services. This entire media hype story is mere fanfare for gullible morons. If you want to use the internet privately and anonymously, you easily can. That is not about to change.

But the ISP's admin fees are about to go up, in the hunt for feckless criminals

 

[DotCommunist]

Are ANY of our elected representatives from an IT background, or are they all PPE graduates?

given their fantastical waste of public money on repeatedly shit failing IT projects, the latter is more plausible. The contractors must see these mugs coming

 

[joe_infinity]

The contractors must see these mugs coming

taxpayer-funded mugs

 

[pinkychukkles]

It would be completely impossible to "ban" either encryption or VPN-type services.

Leaving aside the legitimate uses of VPNs that I've already mentioned, what is there to prevent the government compiling a list of IP addresses for all known VPNs and then requiring all UK ISP providers to block connection attempts to them much like they have done for Pirate Bay?

 

[gosub]

Gotcha

because... ?
off the top my head - there are many legitimate uses for VPNs, i.e. companies providing them for staff to facilitate out-of-office working
but any others?

 

[existentialist]

Gotcha

because... ?
off the top my head - there are many legitimate uses for VPNs, i.e. companies providing them for staff to facilitate out-of-office working
but any others?

It depends how you define "legitimate". Most of us would probably regard our privacy as legitimate - clearly, the State is likely to have a different view.

 

[joe_infinity]

Leaving aside the legitimate uses of VPNs that I've already mentioned, what is there to prevent the government compiling a list of IP addresses for all known VPNs and then requiring all UK ISP providers to block connection attempts to them much like they have done for Pirate Bay?

I think you answer your own question simply by mentioning 'pirate bay'

How difficult is it to access pirate bay now that the government has "blocked" it? - There are a million different options for accessing Pirate bay besides the main, direct way which is blocked by the big UK ISPs. Only a total IT-inept moron could fail to access the Pirate bay, despite the governments attempts to "block it" to appease the copywrite lobby.

The idea of "compiling a list of all VPNS and blocking them" is *considerably* more ludicrous and unworkable than the idea of "blocking the Pirate Bay".

 

[Teaboy]

Are ANY of our elected representatives from an IT background, or are they all PPE graduates?

The elected representatives probably know fuck all about IT but there will be decent techies in the background advising them. Basically she's dumbing it down and lying.

 

[Lazy Llama]

Here's the draft bill if anyone's interested:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...le/473770/Draft_Investigatory_Powers_Bill.pdf

So they've dropped any encryption stuff that might have been in there:

The draft Bill will not impose any additional requirements in relation to encryption over and above the existing obligations in RIPA.

 

[gosub]

The elected representatives probably know fuck all about IT but there will be decent techies in the background advising them. Basically she's dumbing it down and lying.

https://smithinstitutethinktank.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/who-governs-britain.pdf Page 4. its not even listed as a sector. How many fuck ups have we had on government tech projects, how many services are now online access.... Crazy.

 

[DotCommunist]

so its an exercise in Something being Seen To Be Done? 60k a year for these wanks to bollock about on nonsense

 

[Teaboy]

https://smithinstitutethinktank.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/who-governs-britain.pdf Page 4. its not even listed as a sector. How many fuck ups have we had on government tech projects, how many services are now online access.... Crazy.

Yeah but that's procurement. I'm currently involved in several large infrastructure projects and government procurement is a crazy crazy world.

I'm pretty sure the security services will be aware of vpns, proxy servers, tor etc etc. Lets face it they've been rifling through this shit for years all this bill is about is giving their actions a veneer of legality.

 

[gosub]

Yeah but that's procurement. I'm currently involved in several large infrastructure projects and government procurement is a crazy crazy world.

I'm pretty sure the security services will be aware of vpns, proxy servers, tor etc etc. Lets face it they've been rifling through this shit for years all this bill is about is giving their actions a veneer of legality.

By creating shedloads of pointless admin. If we had knowledgable voices at source saying you don't want to do it like that, you'd get better systems cheaper.

 

[joe_infinity]

I'm pretty sure the security services will be aware of vpns, proxy servers, tor etc etc.

Of course they are *aware* of these things like TOR, but that is very different thing from suggesting that they have *cracked* these things like TOR.

The government does not have magical powers to unencrypt encrypted data on-command. Encrypted data is indistinguishable from random data.