critique of loon theories around banking/money creation/the federal reserve

[frogwoman]

oh for god's sake. The point is to try to show that this isn't simply 'the system' - it's one that came about despite many people objecting, and objecting vociferously.

Henry Ford may have been very wrong on social issues, he was right about banking and building motor cars.

We can have this one instead:

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson

Henry Ford was an industrialist, he was one of the "elite" that he is supposedly criticising, as was thomas jefferson ffs. It's like using Bush's quotations about freedom a political argument ffs.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Didn't Jefferson also keep slaves? And Ford's views on banking are inseparable from his views on social issues - ie. Jews. And his building motor cars (why do you post like a 1950s TV presenter?) is inseparable from his union bashing and opportunistic hyper-exploitation.

Stockholm syndrome indeed.

 

[Jazzz]

No, they don't. You're wrong. You've been shown to be wrong again and again. Do you want to go through it again?

I have already indeed spent much time going through how banks create money and it is the truth of the matter that they do. If you have a question I am happy to further explain it.

 

[Blagsta]

I have already indeed spent much time going through how banks create money and it is the truth of the matter that they do. If you have a question I am happy to further explain it.

Yes, you've spent time having your arguments taken apart. Do we need to do this again?

 

[SpineyNorman]

I have already indeed spent much time going through how banks create money and it is the truth of the matter that they do. If you have a question I am happy to further explain it.

Just fuck off eh? You've been repeatedly exposed as an idiot who has no clue what he's on about by love detective, Jean-Luc and others. This may go some way towards explaining why you consistently fail to recognise that your arguments have been destroyed.

I remember when people used to say Blagsta was out of order when he called you an antisemite. Not any more eh?

 

[Blagsta]

Ahead of the game, that's me.

 

[barney_pig]

Henry Ford may have been very wrong on social issues, he was right about banking and building motor cars.

Right about banking?
"International financiers are behind all war. They are what is called the international Jew: German Jews, French Jews, English Jews, American Jews. I believe that in all those countries except our own the Jewish financier is supreme . . . here the Jew is a threat"

 

[frogwoman]

Henry ford, really? Jesus wept.

 

[frogwoman]

And all of these people Jazzz quotes approvingly were members of the ruling class themselves.

 

[SpineyNorman]

But he's a twoof seeker, we're all just sheeple who believe everything we're told. Stockholm syndrome and stuff.

 

[frogwoman]

remember those real conspiracies that truth seeking loons help to obscure? the protocols and the story of their world wide spread around the world was one of them. the promotion of them by henry ford was an example of a member of the elite using his influence to cover up the truth, spread "social discord" and to spread hatred against a group other than himself. But he didn't have a big nose or wear a yarmulke so it was all right.

These people were the fucking elite jazzz. The company he founded is now one of the biggest companies in the world.

 

[ymu]

Benefit of the doubt evaporated here too. I genuinely like the bloke, when he isn't spreading anti-semitic propaganda or recklessly endangering lives with his anti-vaccination nonsense.

But I don't really care if he's consciously racist or not any more. He's been given enough chances and enough reading material over the years and he still comes back with unchanged arguments, and chucks more misleading poison into the mix any time he is challenged. It's gone way beyond the point of acceptable behaviour on here, as far as I'm concerned. Racism is not tolerated from anyone else and hiding behind conspiracy theories doesn't cut it.

If you repeatedly post material from anti-semitic sites despite repeated requests not to, fuck you and your faux innocence. It's real people's lives being endangered by the spread of this filth and I don't see why urban should allow itself to be a conduit for that.

 

[Jazzz]

I agree that you'd need the same quantity of money in circulation. The point is you wouldn't be able to achieve that without printing new money - how could you possibly when banks can only lend timed deposits?

Well this is precisely it, we would print our own money so that we have enough in circulation. And the great thing about that is that we don't owe it back to the banks. You might very well not need a bank loan because you would already have the stuff. We are so on the hamster wheel of the banks that we do not realise that life should be so much easier.

 

[Blagsta]

Yeah, just printing money, that worked so well in the past, ay.

 

[DotCommunist]

the hamster wheel of oppression is many spoked and we are forever doomed to run on it like a gnat chained to a boulder called barclays

 

[Yelkcub]

Why do you get into it with him? He's nuts, stupid, evil or all three. Any whatever you say just gives further attention.

 

[sihhi]

the promotion of them by henry ford was an example of a member of the elite using his influence to cover up the truth, spread "social discord" and to spread hatred against a group other than himself. But he didn't have a big nose or wear a yarmulke so it was all right.

Don't be silly, Henry Ford was Jewish. You must know how absolutely horrific and dangerous it is to accuse non-racists and anti-racists of elements of racism in their activities. This ruins genuine anti-racism. Cynthia McKinney and Henry Ford are both opposed to International Zionism not Jews - pls check yr facts and seek the truth!

 

[DotCommunist]

“I know who caused the war (World War I)—the German-Jewish bankers! I have the evidence here. Facts! I can’t give out the facts now, because I haven’t got them all yet, but I’ll have them soon.”

go on henry, tell t like it is MATE

 

[Jazzz]

guys, get over yourselves. This is about banking. Race has got fuck all to do with it. So what if I don't know much about the social policies of Ford or Eisenhower or Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson all of whom spoke out and warned against the monetary system as it stands now among many others. If there is a problem, let me distance myself from any social policy they may have had. The important thing to get heads around is how money is created and whether it is in our interests.

You should all realise that the current system is ABSOLUTELY INSANE. Whole countries go down over 'confidence'. Whole countries are in massive amounts of debt that can never be repaid. Banks make absolutely fortunes consistently and when their games fail they are bailed out by the people. It's a massive scam.

 

[sihhi]

go on henry, tell t like it is MATE

OK then he will: If fans wish to know the trouble with American baseball they have it in three words — too much Jew.

 

[Jazzz]

Yeah, just printing money, that worked so well in the past, ay.

If no-one created money then there would be no money. The question is, who should create it and how?

 

[where to]

You should all realise...

Thank you, good shepherd.

 

[butchersapron]

guys, get over yourselves. This is about banking. Race has got fuck all to do with it. So what if I don't know much about the social policies of Ford or Eisenhower or Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson all of whom spoke out and warned against the monetary system as it stands now among many others. If there is a problem, let me distance myself from any social policy they may have had. The important thing to get heads around is how money is created and whether it is in our interests.

You should all realise that the current system is ABSOLUTELY INSANE. Whole countries go down over 'confidence'. Whole countries are in massive amounts of debt that can never be repaid. Banks make absolutely fortunes consistently and when their games fail they are bailed out by the people. It's a massive scam.

Because you don't know the social policies of name after name after name

May someone lift your darkness.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Nobody is denying that the current system is insane Jazzz - you're talking to anticapitalists here.

We just recognise that the thinly veiled antisemitic conspiracy theories you peddle, the theoretical equivalent of pushing pencils up your nose, wearing underpants on your head and screaming 'help me I'm a pixie' are even less sane.

And one final time since you're clearly hard of thinking - the 'social policies' of Ford et al are completely inseparable from their thinking on banking - as several people have clearly shown on this thread using quotes.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I've only once called for anyone to be banned - and that was when longdog was saying drug users and travelers should be euthenised. But I have to wonder - why hasn't this racist troll been banned yet? It's obvious for anyone who looks at it sensibly that if anyone else tried pulling this kind of shit they'd be gone in no time.

There's an argument that we should tolerate this stuff because the only way it will be beaten is by exposing its inherent stupidity. I'm not sure if I agree with it but if that's what we're doing we should do it for everyone. Not just one person simply because he happens to be polite and a good piano player.

 

[DotCommunist]

The same formidable willpower and organizational instincts that led to Ford's renown and success as the inventor of the automobile assembly line, the same obsessive determination and singular focus that created the Ford Motor Company, resulted in the destructive mass production of hate. With America heading into World War I, Ford's media campaign took off and continued well into the 1930s, as he published "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," "The International Jew," and for ninety-one consecutive weeks, an uninterrupted serious of venomous essays in "The Dearborn Independent." Declaring "I know who caused the war," Henry Ford became ever more convinced that these "parasites, these sloths and lunatics ... apostles of murder," the "German-Jewish bankers," were liable for society's ills."

An interesting note is that Hitler had a large framed portrait of Henry Ford, Sr. in his private office.

a stand-up guy

 

[ymu]

I've only once called for anyone to be banned - and that was when longdog was saying drug users and travelers should be euthenised. But I have to wonder - why hasn't this racist troll been banned yet? It's obvious for anyone who looks at it sensibly that if anyone else tried pulling this kind of shit they'd be gone in no time.

There's an argument that we should tolerate this stuff because the only way it will be beaten is by exposing its inherent stupidity. I'm not sure if I agree with it but if that's what we're doing we should do it for everyone. Not just one person simply because he happens to be polite and a good piano player.

Useful idiots are useful.

But I suspect all we're achieving here is boosting his loon sites in the search engine rankings.

Broken links in his posts would be a halfway house, I guess. Is there a way to ban people from posting live links so they have to post them broken?

Lazy Llama

 

[frogwoman]

Don't be silly, Henry Ford was Jewish. You must know how absolutely horrific and dangerous it is to accuse non-racists and anti-racists of elements of racism in their activities. This ruins genuine anti-racism. Cynthia McKinney and Henry Ford are both opposed to International Zionism not Jews - pls check yr facts and seek the truth!

Ah yes, most anti-semites are jewish, because anti-semitism itself is a jewish plot to make them all look like victims, except when they're telling the truth, then they're brave truth-tellers.

guys, get over yourselves. This is about banking. Race has got fuck all to do with it. So what if I don't know much about the social policies of Ford or Eisenhower or Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson all of whom spoke out and warned against the monetary system as it stands now among many others. If there is a problem, let me distance myself from any social policy they may have had. The important thing to get heads around is how money is created and whether it is in our interests.

You should all realise that the current system is ABSOLUTELY INSANE. Whole countries go down over 'confidence'. Whole countries are in massive amounts of debt that can never be repaid. Banks make absolutely fortunes consistently and when their games fail they are bailed out by the people. It's a massive scam.

Dont you get these people ARE PART OF THE RULING CLASS JAZZZ. Do you think they were somehow lone truth-tellers bereft of influence? Ford started the fuckin Ford Motor Company for christ's sake, he was hardly some lone voice who somehow knew what banking was all about. His statements about banking have to be viewed in the context of who he was and his position in society and his position as a leading industrial capitalist. Would you trust a man like that to give an account of what capitalism is, to critique his own position within capitalism? No of course you wouldn't.

Their social policies were hardly incidental, they had real effects on people's lives despite their tub thumping abstract rhetoric about banks and revolutions and how we'd have a revolution if we knew about how banks worked, they were terrified of a prospect of a real revolution. Once again it is like taking George W Bush seriously when he talks about "freedom and democracy" and how important it is to educate children, and making out that he was some kind of fighter for freedom, viewed abstractly, viewed independently of any of his other actions.

You have to remember at at the time of Henry Ford et al, anti-semitism was a very strong social force a lot bigger than it is today. The Times, hardly a voice of alternative truth but then as now a voice of the bourgeois media held a series of articles implying that the Protocols was a real document. These people had powerful positions in society. They had their own reasons for promoting this filth, which was often to draw attention away from themselves and their own activities.

 

[SpineyNorman]

If we're going to do that we should do it for all loons, not just one because he's supposedly an OK guy irl and a decent piano player.

 

[frogwoman]

One of the leading heads of state of one of the most powerful countries in Europe had a poster of him in his office. Does that sound like somebody who was "telling the truth" to you and knew about how banking worked? If Margaret Thatcher said something about banks you vaguely agreed with, would you go around quoting her uncritically as some sort of supporter of a revolution? Actually you probably would because you don't seem to be able to judge anything critically.