crappiest fantasy books?

[tommers]

I think the book of his I enjoyed the most was where he and some other bloke used British place-names as words for things that otherwise have no words for them iyswim. Just jokes, none of the other filler stuff.

The meaning of liff.

 

[TruXta]

The meaning of liff.

That's it, ta.

 

[DotCommunist]

...unlike the above specimens I'll admit to having bought this...grumpy aging hippies Hawkwind re-imagined as science-fantasy superheroes....Moorcock shamelessly pimping his name out ....

also, why is brak the undernourished barbarian getting a rim job in the middle of fighting an insect here

 

[hot air baboon]

No. But there's nothing in the background, no one picking the tobacco, no one making the swords: can't think of any mention of blacksmiths. It's like a poor cartoon.

...your keyboard speaks heresy miserable churl....

Pipe-weed (also known as Halflings' Leaf) is grown and enjoyed much by the hobbits of the Shire, to whom ikit was first introduced by Tobold Hornblower. Pipe-weed production is a major industry there, especially in the south. It was known among the Dúnedain as sweet galenas for its fragrance. In Gondor it grows as a wild plant, appreciated primarily for its sweet-scented leaves.

In Gondor, it is known popularly as Westman's-weed, a reference to its origin: it was apparently brought to Middle-earth by Númenóreans during the Second Age. It was first grown among hobbits by Tobold Hornblower in Longbottom (a region in the Shire) around S.R. 1070 (TA 2670). Despite its foreign origins, the hobbits (possibly those in Bree) were the first to use it for smoking.
Popular varieties of pipe-weed include Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby (which is named after Tobold Hornblower), Southern Star, and Southlinch, which is grown in Bree.

Pipe-weed

...we know from the hobbit barrel scene that there is a wine export trade between Lake Town & the Elven King using the river to float the barrels to & fro along with thriving micro-breweries like the Golden Perch at Stock "...The best beer in the Eastfarthing...."

..as for smithing ME has its very own deity Aulë the Smith who created the dwarves in his image - who do all that sword making & metal working in big mines underneath mountains & stuff...not to mention the arts of the Elves themselves :

Fëanor was the student of Mahtan, who was himself a student of the Vala Aulë. He was a craftsman and gem-smith, inventor of the Tengwar script.

.....no-one can be in any doubt from Sharkey's depredations upon the Shire what the creator of Middle earth thought about industrialisation...

 

[Pickman's model]

...your keyboard speaks heresy miserable churl....

Pipe-weed (also known as Halflings' Leaf) is grown and enjoyed much by the hobbits of the Shire, to whom ikit was first introduced by Tobold Hornblower. Pipe-weed production is a major industry there, especially in the south. It was known among the Dúnedain as sweet galenas for its fragrance. In Gondor it grows as a wild plant, appreciated primarily for its sweet-scented leaves.

In Gondor, it is known popularly as Westman's-weed, a reference to its origin: it was apparently brought to Middle-earth by Númenóreans during the Second Age. It was first grown among hobbits by Tobold Hornblower in Longbottom (a region in the Shire) around S.R. 1070 (TA 2670). Despite its foreign origins, the hobbits (possibly those in Bree) were the first to use it for smoking.
Popular varieties of pipe-weed include Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby (which is named after Tobold Hornblower), Southern Star, and Southlinch, which is grown in Bree.

Pipe-weed

...we know from the hobbit barrel scene that there is a wine export trade between Lake Town & the Elven King using the river to float the barrels to & fro...as for smithing ME has its very own deity Aulë the Smith who created the dwarves in his image - who do all that sword making & metal working in big mines underneath mountains & stuff...not to mention the arts of the Elves themselves :

Fëanor was the student of Mahtan, who was himself a student of the Vala Aulë. He was a craftsman and gem-smith, inventor of the Tengwar script.

.....no-one can be in any doubt from Sharkey's depredations upon the Shire what the creator of Middle earth thought about industrialisation...

yes. but none of what you say comes from the actual narrative of lotr. i don't care what jrrt thought about industrialisation, btw.

 

[Idris2002]

I read one of those Turtledove alternate history novels, set in the timeline where the southern states won the US civil war and went on to be a fascist regime in the 1930s. It was crappy because it was a good idea wasted - the whole thing reeked of mediocrity.

 

[DotCommunist]

I read one of those Turtledove alternate history novels, set in the timeline where the southern states won the US civil war and went on to be a fascist regime in the 1930s. It was crappy because it was a good idea wasted - the whole thing reeked of mediocrity.

you are not the only one to have made this complaint about turtledove- for alt.history of as good ideas and better execution I am always a Robert Silverburg fan. Although I don't think turtledove stinks as badly as everyone else does, just clumsy but gets away with it for me.

 

[hot air baboon]

...rather knocks into a cocked hat your absurd & unfounded "poor cartoon" allegation though....you must be getting confused with Ralph Bakshi...

 

[DotCommunist]

.....no-one can be in any doubt from Sharkey's depredations upon the Shire what the creator of Middle earth thought about industrialisation...

part of his infinite village green england-in-his-head. The machineries at orthanc and morder, the fire and smoke and the stunted ugly beings with thick regional accents called orcs. Pretty transparant ennit

 

[hot air baboon]

....being orphaned & ending up in Birmingham could do that to a person...

 

[Corax]

...your keyboard speaks heresy miserable churl....

Pipe-weed (also known as Halflings' Leaf) is grown and enjoyed much by the hobbits of the Shire, to whom ikit was first introduced by Tobold Hornblower. Pipe-weed production is a major industry there, especially in the south. It was known among the Dúnedain as sweet galenas for its fragrance. In Gondor it grows as a wild plant, appreciated primarily for its sweet-scented leaves.

In Gondor, it is known popularly as Westman's-weed, a reference to its origin: it was apparently brought to Middle-earth by Númenóreans during the Second Age. It was first grown among hobbits by Tobold Hornblower in Longbottom (a region in the Shire) around S.R. 1070 (TA 2670). Despite its foreign origins, the hobbits (possibly those in Bree) were the first to use it for smoking.
Popular varieties of pipe-weed include Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby (which is named after Tobold Hornblower), Southern Star, and Southlinch, which is grown in Bree.

Pipe-weed

...we know from the hobbit barrel scene that there is a wine export trade between Lake Town & the Elven King using the river to float the barrels to & fro along with thriving micro-breweries like the Golden Perch at Stock "...The best beer in the Eastfarthing...."

..as for smithing ME has its very own deity Aulë the Smith who created the dwarves in his image - who do all that sword making & metal working in big mines underneath mountains & stuff...not to mention the arts of the Elves themselves :

Fëanor was the student of Mahtan, who was himself a student of the Vala Aulë. He was a craftsman and gem-smith, inventor of the Tengwar script.

.....no-one can be in any doubt from Sharkey's depredations upon the Shire what the creator of Middle earth thought about industrialisation...

You don't get out much, do you?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Actually, the lack of reality in fantasy books is a huge gripe of mine. Since I know exactly how much of each day is spent doing all that stuff such as finding and preparing food, cleaning, and even getting from a to b, I find the refusal to ground fiction in any believable reality (do any characters actually eat, go to the toilet, have financial issues,) most annoying and nearly always gravitate towards writers who do accept the quotidian realities of daily life. Until I owned a wood, I uncritically accepted the many, many journeys which involve trekking through woods (or any hostile landscape) without reference to the difficulties of doing so (there is no 'following the paths' in my wood unless you wish to be stuck in bramble forever)...but am now inclined to want a more grounded reality which, conversely, allows the fantasy elements to really soar free.
Does this sound rubbish or am I explaining myself sufficiently?

Pratchett was always great at looking past the tropes of high fantasy and seeing all the folk in the background herding sheep and growing cabbages. It's not a trivial thing. Even a world with fantastical elements has to be somehow functional in order to be engaging, in the same way characters do. A fantasy world should have a sense that it extends beyond the people and events of the story itself, just like a character needs to have some thoughts and feelings beyond what is required for the next bit of the story to happen to them.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Tolkien was a world expert on pre-literate mythologies. He built himself a detailed toy universe based on his knowledge of Finnish, Nordic, Anglo Saxon and a bit of Brythonic Celtic mythologies. He wrote a childrens story loosely based on his toy universe, then wrote a more adult follow up. Its a fair critique for people to say his world did not really match up to 20th century expectations but of all the fantasy authors imitating late iron age\medieval worlds, Tolkien is probably the only one whos works have any real resemblance to what people then were listening too (and that would be his poems and backstory stuff)

The other counter to the criticism is how many people moan about the Avengers for not giving us details on the lives of the people in the cities they trash.

I have no idea which book I stopped reading the Wheel of Time at I am just glad I did before I stabbed my own eyes out. Polgara the Sorceress/Belgarath the Sorcerer probably suffered badly compared to Eddings early stuff by me no longer being 12 when I read them.

 

[TruXta]

Tolkien was a world expert on pre-literate mythologies. He built himself a detailed toy universe based on his knowledge of Finnish, Nordic, Anglo Saxon and a bit of Brythonic Celtic mythologies. He wrote a childrens story loosely based on his toy universe, then wrote a more adult follow up. Its a fair critique for people to say his world did not really match up to 20th century expectations but of all the fantasy authors imitating late iron age\medieval worlds, Tolkien is probably the only one whos works have any real resemblance to what people then were listening too (and that would be his poems and backstory stuff)

He basically created the mythos to have a backstory for the languages he created, rather than the other way around. He was a linguist first and foremost and storytelling came second, which for better and worse shines through in all his work bar the Hobbit, IME.

 

[Pickman's model]

Tolkien was a world expert on pre-literate mythologies. He built himself a detailed toy universe based on his knowledge of Finnish, Nordic, Anglo Saxon and a bit of Brythonic Celtic mythologies. He wrote a childrens story loosely based on his toy universe, then wrote a more adult follow up. Its a fair critique for people to say his world did not really match up to 20th century expectations but of all the fantasy authors imitating late iron age\medieval worlds, Tolkien is probably the only one whos works have any real resemblance to what people then were listening too (and that would be his poems and backstory stuff)

The other counter to the criticism is how many people moan about the Avengers for not giving us details on the lives of the people in the cities they trash.

I have no idea which book I stopped reading the Wheel of Time at I am just glad I did before I stabbed my own eyes out. Polgara the Sorceress/Belgarath the Sorcerer probably suffered badly compared to Eddings early stuff by me no longer being 12 when I read them.

Not sure there are so many kennings in lotr

 

[DotCommunist]

yeah I recall reading his bio, used to make up languages as a kid and teen, shared ones with his peers. But he was the one who was that serious he did a grammar for it as well etc.

Philologist is what they call them. Amusingly tolkiens lecture as a student (need to check the book for precise details) as detailed in The Inklings was one that went on fo so long they cut him short and he didn't get to deliver the second part of it. He had the last laugh by inflicting it on his students in later years probably

 

[hot air baboon]

also, why is brak the undernourished barbarian getting a rim job in the middle of fighting an insect here

....'cos they couldn't afford Frank Frazetta on a Brak-sized budget....or even the other one that's like Frank Fazetta but not as good....

...not sure I agree about the orcs accents though...was that Tolkien or just Peter Jackson doing his trite worst or are we thinking of the weasels in Wind in the Willows ....it must be conceded the Black Speech was a guttural tongue though that didn't lend itself readily to linguistic delicacy or finesse....& life as an orc was hardly a bed of roses either lets not forget....acting as the mailed fist of the long & vengeful arm of the Dark Lord of Middle Earth - Sauron the Mighty himself - ( & in fact any Dark Lord generally ) is to experience life very much at the sharp end...

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Tolkien fretted for a long time about the nature of Orcs, and about how he had portrayed them, long after LotR was published. Did they have agency of their own, were they corrupted Elves, what happened after death for them? The man was, to put it mildly, rather unusual in his obsessions.

 

[TruXta]

Tolkien fretted for a long time about the nature of Orcs, and about how he had portrayed them, long after LotR was published. Did they have agency of their own, were they corrupted Elves, what happened after death for them? The man was, to put it mildly, rather unusual in his obsessions.

All stemming from his Catholic faith I guess.

The orcs are clearly described as corrupted elves in the Silmarillion IIRC - Morgoth made them from captured elves etc. Basically all the makers in Tolkien's mythos end up evil or failures somehow. Morgoth, Sauron, Feanor, Aule, the dwarves, orcs and most men, all go to shit because they love things and the crafting of and possession of things too much. It starts at the very beginning - Morgoth/Melkor is basically Lucifer, seeking individuality and dissent. He's sent to Arda/Middle earth and remakes it, and so on and so forth. It's all a fall from grace and salvation lies (in LOTR) with the destruction of the THING aka the One Ring. And even then it's not salvation as much as the start of a benign neglect and the desacralisation of the world.


I remember way too much of this stuff

 

[Supine]

Found a stash of Wheel of Time books once when I was squatting. Having no TV and no internet meant I was held hostage by Robert Jordan's prose.

Talk about kicking a man while he's down

 

[toggle]

School Principal Says Reading 'Harry Potter' and 'Game of Thrones' Causes Brain Damage

 

[DotCommunist]

benign neglect

left the istari behind to guide things a bit. Even that blue one who lives in the racistly portrayed lands

that was one of the biggest cunts of the hobbit films. They ruined radagast. Shit on him, literally.

 

[Corax]

School Principal Says Reading 'Harry Potter' and 'Game of Thrones' Causes Brain Damage

Great - there'll be a rich pool of talent to choose from for the next generation of school Principals then.

 

[DotCommunist]

rather unusual in his obsessions.

its a shame he never lived to see compter solitaire. He was pretty obsessed with the patterns of his own making in later years and basicaly tying himself card knots to unravel. Odd man, but who among us has not had a skive at work or school on the solitaire/minsesweeper given the chance

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Odd man, but who among us has not had a skive at work or school on the solitaire/minsesweeper given the chance

Best part of sixty years worth of tinkering with the world/languages/voices in his head...

 

[DotCommunist]

Best part of sixty years worth of tinkering with the world/languages/voices in his head...

you'll note he only saw his wife buried for a few years before he called it in. Whatever else he was he was her one love they say. Changed his denomination for her in an era when that was big cheese. Fell out- not directly but a distancing- with CS Lewis for marrying her.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

you'll note he only saw his wife buried for a few years before he called it in. Whatever else he was he was her one love they say. Changed his demonination for her in an era when that was big cheese. Fell out- not directly but a distancing- with CS Lewis for marrying her.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I started reading the - apparently highly rated - "Daughter of smoke and bone" and managed about two chapters before i had to give up because of the clunking mediocrity of the writing.
Could never get past the smug tone of harry potter either.
Im glad donaldson is getting slated - as a teen I had a few mate recommend the thomas covenent series - but I couldn't get into it. I now know i didn't miss anything.

 

[DotCommunist]

smug tone of harry potter

enid blighton meets tolkienesque bollocks. And you can't escape the fact of what she means by muggles. She might not have admitted to herself what she means but theres a clear fucking message. Thats why I like Malazan, you can get a learned mage begin his incantation and then boom, grenade in the face. 30 yeas of in depth learning, huge skill at the craft and power. Undone in a single moment. Because thats how it is, no matter how fucking smart, hard, fast you are. A grenade will always end your day.
It's what I liked about Malazan books having squad mages as well. This man or woman is as much a tool as a sapper, as a shieldwall-holder, as an assault marine as a medic. Just another type of blade, albeit a scary one. I'd love to read the mott woods campaign. Proper woodland swamp witches with deep mud hexes and gurilla troops who just know the place. Well.

 

[Cid]

you'll note he only saw his wife buried for a few years before he called it in. Whatever else he was he was her one love they say. Changed his denomination for her in an era when that was big cheese. Fell out- not directly but a distancing- with CS Lewis for marrying her.

She changed for him, Tolkien being Catholic.

Also Tolkien got married in 1916 and met Lewis in 1926, so I doubt they fell out over it.