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crappiest fantasy books?

Actually, the lack of reality in fantasy books is a huge gripe of mine. Since I know exactly how much of each day is spent doing all that stuff such as finding and preparing food, cleaning, and even getting from a to b, I find the refusal to ground fiction in any believable reality (do any characters actually eat, go to the toilet, have financial issues,) most annoying and nearly always gravitate towards writers who do accept the quotidian realities of daily life. Until I owned a wood, I uncritically accepted the many, many journeys which involve trekking through woods (or any hostile landscape) without reference to the difficulties of doing so (there is no 'following the paths' in my wood unless you wish to be stuck in bramble forever)...but am now inclined to want a more grounded reality which, conversely, allows the fantasy elements to really soar free.
Does this sound rubbish or am I explaining myself sufficiently?
 
who was making stuff in 9- 12 cent Wessex?

no real mention in the tales of teh Era (a small nod to bakers aside) and yet, swords, axe and spear heads were made, chainmail knitted and helms crafted. Burhs (very important structures that greatly helped hold back the Norse) popped up all over the place without mention of who actually built them, ships were built with no mention of teh shipwrights.
 
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Smiths, shipwrights and farmers all get a shout in Tolkein's work.

Mainly people in LOTR and the Hobbit seem to be scavenging from the detritus of earlier ages.
 
pluis lets face it at 3 large volumes if he had included all teh "Little People" stuff it would have taken a whole shelf
 
I am slightly more inclined to give Tolkien a pass because of the period in which LOTR was written and the circumstances in which it was contrived (mid century gilded academia) - hence the covert misogyny and simplistic good vs evil worldview...
I frequently find myself wondering how and when fantasy figures manage to change their knickers or eat dinner and have to conclude that most fantasy worlds consist of very thin and whiffy characters.
Are all dwarves male? Is there a single mention of a Mrs Dwarf, skinning a were-rabbit back home in the cave?
 
campanula said:
Actually, the lack of reality in fantasy books is a huge gripe of mine. Since I know exactly how much of each day is spent doing all that stuff such as finding and preparing food, cleaning, and even getting from a to b, I find the refusal to ground fiction in any believable reality (do any characters actually eat, go to the toilet, have financial issues,) most annoying and nearly always gravitate towards writers who do accept the quotidian realities of daily life. Until I owned a wood, I uncritically accepted the many, many journeys which involve trekking through woods (or any hostile landscape) without reference to the difficulties of doing so (there is no 'following the paths' in my wood unless you wish to be stuck in bramble forever)...but am now inclined to want a more grounded reality which, conversely, allows the fantasy elements to really soar free.
Does this sound rubbish or am I explaining myself sufficiently?
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I think this is spot on but not particularly a problem for fantasy, but a lot of fiction, as well as movies and TV. The again you have Erikson's Malazan books and before that Glen Cook's Black Company series which partially were a response to that I reckon.
 
campanula said:
I frequently find myself wondering how and when fantasy figures manage to change their knickers or eat dinner and have to conclude that most fantasy worlds consist of very thin and whiffy characters.
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I wonder, does a work of fiction need characters to be good or compelling? Myths arguably aren't really about characters as much as archetypes or symbols of culture - doesn't a lot of classic fantasy consciously hew close to this ideal of storytelling rather than the modern novel with a focus on interior lives and so on?
 
campanula said:
Steven King's Dark Tower - for some reason, my youngest raves about this and continually thrusts copies at me (I read 3/4 of the first one)
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glad its not just me. Its so steven king it hurts. And its 'I can do horrror, I can write any genre fiction!' no, no mate you can't

steven erikson is probably one of my favourite fantasy writers though, his co-creator of the malazan world ian esselmont is quite good but doesn't have eriksons deft mythopoetic touch
 
TruXta said:
I wonder, does a work of fiction need characters to be good or compelling? Myths arguably aren't really about characters as much as archetypes or symbols of culture - doesn't a lot of classic fantasy consciously hew close to this ideal of storytelling rather than the modern novel with a focus on interior lives and so on?
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Yep, but myths require hanging off feasible characters...at least for me...to have that emotional response. I find no resonance in the myths themselves, only in how they impact on the lives of those living in that mythic era.
[
steven erikson is probably one of my favourite fantasy writers though, his co-creator of the malazan world ian esselmont is quite good but doesn't have eriksons deft mythopoetic touch[/QUOTE]

Mmm. I cannot get on with Esslemont at all.
 
I have never read the Black Company books - I think I got mixed up with the Brents and Glens and ended up buying some utter tripe by Brent Weeks, I think, which tainted my views of this little group of writers who frequently seem to be mentioned together. What (if anything) am I missing.
eta - nope, it was Brandon Sanderson (Brett, Brent, Brandon???)
OMG , just remembered some more unreadable garbage by Ari Marnell (or something like). I have read heaps of shit and it all starts to elide into a formless wodge of pap in my mind. I hate to mention this Dotty, cos you might have once recommended it but Lucius Shepherd? (I surely hope not) Also. Patrick Rothfuss (more money down the drain)

Secret confession - I rather liked the first couple of RA Salvadore's Dark Elves series.
 
NoXion said:
Found a stash of Wheel of Time books once when I was squatting. Having no TV and no internet meant I was held hostage by Robert Jordan's prose.
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it was up for a hugo award a year back. Didn't get one. Why was it even there? like a long service medal or something? like at the brits where you get a lifetime achievment award for still being alive although you haven't made a decent record in over thirty years?


I have yet to see anyone else stretch the farmboy-with-a-destiny yarn over that length of books. Chunky books
 
Brainaddict said:
Not sure that's quite fair. Did you read to the end of it? The entire plot arc is the rise of the character from ultimate victimhood to her being master of the universe. It could be argued that it is an exploitative way for a male writer to write a woman character, but I didn't think that was the vibe of it by the end. It was a while ago I read it though :hmm:

His prose is shit though. I often wanted to re-edit them to half their length just to make them more readable.
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Yeah I read it all. Didn't enjoy it. Just found it all deeply unpleasant.

And yeah Morn was constantly "gazing into the deep abyss in her soul and screaming at the unutterable desolation of the void".

Over and over again.
 
I am fairly certain the entire McCaffrey catalogue was for ex Pony Club members. Would probably have liked them when I was about 12 but the legions of adult fans always stuns me a little.

Did anyone come across those odd Jacqueline Carey books (titles escape me - Kiss of Naamaath or summat) - quite a lot of S&M and initially, at least, an interesting female lead...but rapidly developed into a sort of 50 shades of shit. Storm Constantine was another - ultimately women in thrall to superior male beings. Mary Gentle has written a few decent female slanted books (although not the architects of desire series).

Ben Bova - pointless piffle (I realise I am verging into sf here but hey, they often occupy the same shelves in the bookshops).

On a roll now - Eric Brown - stupefyingly, he gets to review the Guardian's moribund sf and fantasy listings yet churns out formulaic boring stuff himself.
 
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campanula said:
Did anyone come across those odd Jacqueline Carey books (titles escape me - Kiss of Naamaath or summat)
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kushiels dart :o I really enjoyed them on a certain level but by the second one it had gone samey. I liked the sort of alt history setting also, terre d'ange and so on.

There are lots of authors of frankly bad prose style who I will forgive if the ideas shine bright and fascinating. But truly bad wrtiting doesn't even have that

E.E Doc Smiths 'lensman' for example. He churned out loads, I read I think 2. Space wizard psi hunting space drug smugglers. The fucking paucity of imagination. Drug smuggling. In the very far future. Its reminiscent of the offensively bad shit you got in silver age comic books 'oh just hack out any old shit, its only kids and thier pocket money anyway'. People who got mugged like that remembered and really them growing up and doing the comics themselves is what saw a marked improvement in quality. Don't take the piss out of the reader, same with all to many franchise game/film tie in novels. Sometimes there is gold, lots of Doctor Who new/missing adventures are hidden gems. But then theres mountains of hack work
 
And to my shame i actually read these.....

9780352303837-uk-300.jpg



:oops::oops::oops::oops::oops:
 
DotCommunist said:
'boring ben bova' as I call him. He's not a hack but he is dull as fuck. Never managed more than one book- not even a short story and if you can't do a good short story in sci fi where the genre really shines then you may as well hand in your pen and admit defeat
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They should have endorsed his artistic licence
 
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