Coronavirus - worldwide breaking news, discussion, stats, updates and more

[spring-peeper]

I hate it when he starts his press conference with "my friends" - I am not his friend!!!

Ford claims we are in a tsunami of cases, but our infection numbers dropped. Because we are no longer getting tested.

Anyhooos - these are our new restrictions.

At a news conference Monday, Premier Doug Ford also announced a temporary end to indoor dining and a closure of gyms and indoor fitness facilities.

To guard against hospitals becoming overwhelmed, Ford said, the government will revert to Stage 2-style restrictions for the next three weeks.

Social gatherings will be limited to five people indoors and 10 people outdoors.

Businesses will be required to have employees work from home unless it’s necessary for them to be on site.

Retail stores, including shopping malls, and personal care services will be limited to 50 per cent capacity. At shopping malls, physical distancing will be required in lineups and food courts must close.

Theatres, cinemas, museums and indoor event spaces will be closed.

He is such an asshole.

 

[platinumsage]

This is what a zero-COVID strategy looks like with Omicron. An entire city prevented from leaving their homes even to buy food due to three asymptomatic cases:

China: Xi'an residents in lockdown trade goods for food amid shortage

Supplies are low in lockdown, and some have resorted to bartering phones and gadgets for food.

www.bbc.co.uk

With Just 3 Cases, China Locks Down City Of 1.2 Million

More than one million people in a city in central China were being confined to their homes on Tuesday after three asymptomatic coronavirus cases were recorded in the country's latest mass lockdown.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Yossarian]

This is what a zero-COVID strategy looks like with Omicron. An entire city prevented from leaving their homes even to buy food due to three asymptomatic cases:

China: Xi'an residents in lockdown trade goods for food amid shortage

Supplies are low in lockdown, and some have resorted to bartering phones and gadgets for food.

www.bbc.co.uk

With Just 3 Cases, China Locks Down City Of 1.2 Million

More than one million people in a city in central China were being confined to their homes on Tuesday after three asymptomatic coronavirus cases were recorded in the country's latest mass lockdown.

www.ndtv.com

The Xi'an outbreak is delta, AFAIK - if omicron takes hold in a major city, I don't know if even China's brutal totalitarian state could turn back the clock.

 

[Flavour]

That is hardcore. Fuck that.

 

[Mation]

Now that Ontario will no longer fund covid tests unless you are in a specific subset, we have been given this flowchart on how to proceed.

View attachment 304432

Liked only because at least it's clear, not for the reduction in test funding.

A UK version would look like this:

 

[Yossarian]

Taiwan, which has had a mostly successful zero COVID strategy in place since the very early days of the pandemic without the extreme lockdowns seen in China, will be one to watch - they kept the variant at bay for a while but reported the first community omicron cases yesterday.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Taiwan, which has had a mostly successful zero COVID strategy in place since the very early days of the pandemic without the extreme lockdowns seen in China, will be one to watch - they kept the variant at bay for a while but reported the first community omicron cases yesterday.

I think the thing with zero covid strategies that's been clear for a while is that it's a question of when, not if, the countries with them will change tack. Like many others in that situation, Taiwan was complacent about vaccines, but it's just about up to speed now. Resisting mass death until there's a decent vaccination rate plus a less deadly variant in circulation - places like Taiwan, New Zealand, etc, could be said to have 'made it' already.

 

[two sheds]

IF omicron turns out to be milder and if infection by it gives some added protection to delta, you'd imagine they'd wait and perhaps when all are boosted too, let omicron go through the population.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

IF omicron turns out to be milder and if infection by it gives some added protection to delta, you'd imagine they'd wait and perhaps when all are boosted too, let omicron go through the population.

Taiwan's vaccination programme was so tardy that they barely need boosters yet, tbf. They didn't really get started until July.

 

[IC3D]

IF omicron turns out to be milder and if infection by it gives some added protection to delta, you'd imagine they'd wait and perhaps when all are boosted too, let omicron go through the population.

I'd be cautious claiming vaccines have much effect with Omicron at all.

 

[LDC]

I'd be cautious claiming vaccines have much effect with Omicron at all.

What evidence do you have for making that assertion, when that's not what is being shown generally?

You never answered any of my questions previously when you made a whole load of un-evidenced claims like this btw. Nor did you say what role you had in healthcare.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd be cautious claiming vaccines have much effect with Omicron at all.

I'd be interested to see the evidence you base your caution on

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd be cautious claiming vaccines have much effect with Omicron at all.

Disingenuous twat, troll and/or moron - pick one.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'd be cautious claiming vaccines have much effect with Omicron at all.

It's a complicated picture, isn't it? First you have the difference between antibodies and T-cell response. The former can prevent infection, while the latter aid fighting the infection once you're infected. So just looking at infection or reinfection rates only tells a small part of the story.

As ever with omicron, South Africa is the best place to look at right now. Early evidence shows that booster shots are having a huge effect in reducing hospitalisations. They may be much less effective in preventing infection altogether, but the main thing we want to avoid is serious illness, no? If someone still gets a cold, but it's only a cold, I call that a successful effect.

J&J booster slashes Omicron hospitalisations -S.African study

 

[LDC]

Disingenuous twat, troll and/or moron - pick one.

They've done this for ages. One sentence claims, never reply to any questions asking for back-up. Claims of working healthcare but never say doing what.

Either a coward, a shit stirrer, a gullible idiot, or some combination of them all.

 

[IC3D]

Disingenuous twat, troll and/or moron - pick one.

I'll suggest why I think it may be a possibility Pickman's model but gentlegreen why are you so sure of yourself? And why are you being hostile?

 

[gentlegreen]

gentlegreen why are you so sure of yourself? And why are you being hostile?

We're TWO FUCKING YEARS into this thing and even the laziest amongst us (me) has managed to absorb a little of the science osmotically ...

 

[gentlegreen]

IC3D - meet a fellow traveller :-

Spoiler: detour

(10:43:05‪) * aquadiamond28 has joined the room *

(10:43:35‪) aquadiamond28: Bombshell: Vaccinated people are dying from autoimmune attacks against their own organs https:// .naturalnews.com/2022-01-03-vaccinated-people-dying-from-autoimmune-attacks-against-own-organs.html

(10:44:32‪) aquadiamond28: Autopsy analysis: 93% of post-vaccination deaths are caused by the jabs… “killer lymphocytes” attack organs like the heart and lungs https:// www. naturalnews. com/2022-01-02-93percent-post-vaccination-deaths-caused-by-jabs.html

(10:45:20‪) aquadiamond28: Shocked pharmacist who discovered that covid vaccine inserts are blank says “I shouldn’t be giving these out” https:// www. naturalnews.com/2022-01-03-pharmacist-covid-vaccine-inserts-blank-shouldnt-give.html
(10:46:04‪) * aquadiamond28 has left the room *

 

[Brainaddict]

I think the thing with zero covid strategies that's been clear for a while is that it's a question of when, not if, the countries with them will change tack. Like many others in that situation, Taiwan was complacent about vaccines, but it's just about up to speed now. Resisting mass death until there's a decent vaccination rate plus a less deadly variant in circulation - places like Taiwan, New Zealand, etc, could be said to have 'made it' already.

The other thing that advantages countries that waited before allowing covid in is that much better treatments are now available than were at the beginning of the pandemic. Even if Taiwan opened up now with no restrictions, if they used the full range of vaccines, treatment knowledge and drugs available I reckon they will never approach the death rates that many European countries faced.

What isn't known yet though is the disability rate with the omicron variant, and with vaccination and treatment for the vulnerable in play. I hope to god it's lower because it's clear that most countries are going to continue to ignore the epidemic of disability, or think that the only way to deal with it is not to avoid it but throw research money at it - which to be fair is better than ignoring it altogether, but that research will take years to come to full fruition.

 

[IC3D]

We're TWO FUCKING YEARS into this thing and even the laziest amongst us (me) has managed to absorb a little of the science osmotically .

IC3D - meet a fellow traveller :-

Wtf are you posting.

 

[IC3D]

I was being disingenuous.
I wanted to point out the polarisation around discussions on the subject.
The effacy of our primary defence against death being a subject that has created quite deep divisions and intolerance that I think will ripple beyond a Pandemic that ultimately will end soon.

 

[gentlegreen]

I was being disingenuous.
I wanted to point out the polarisation around discussions on the subject.
The effacy of our primary defence against death being a subject that has created quite deep divisions and intolerance that I think will ripple beyond a Pandemic that ultimately will end soon.

Take it somewhere else ... (whatever the hell it is you think you mean)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The other thing that advantages countries that waited before allowing covid in is that much better treatments are now available than were at the beginning of the pandemic. Even if Taiwan opened up now with no restrictions, if they used the full range of vaccines, treatment knowledge and drugs available I reckon they will never approach the death rates that many European countries faced.

What isn't known yet though is the disability rate with the omicron variant, and with vaccination and treatment for the vulnerable in play. I hope to god it's lower because it's clear that most countries are going to continue to ignore the epidemic of disability, or think that the only way to deal with it is not to avoid it but throw research money at it - which to be fair is better than ignoring it altogether, but that research will take years to come to full fruition.

It's producing a different set of symptoms (bronchitis rather than pneumonia is how I heard it described), and appears not to affect smell in the same way, so perhaps is not attacking the brain as much. I'm hopeful in that regard.

 

[Brainaddict]

It's producing a different set of symptoms (bronchitis rather than pneumonia is how I heard it described), and appears not to affect smell in the same way, so perhaps is not attacking the brain as much. I'm hopeful in that regard.

I hope your optimism turns out to be right, but not sure the reasons you suggest are cause for optimism, given we don't know the main mechanisms that cause long covid yet. I certain don't think it's much to do with lung damage (authorities have conflated post-ICU damage with post-viral fatigue but only because there's a lot of momentum behind gas-lighting people with PVF and looking for organ damage as the cause). As for the relationship between PVF and neurological damage, we have absolutely no idea of what the relationship is, including the causal direction.

The most interesting research on it all I've seen seems to suggest a problem in many people of transferring oxygen from the blood (which is well oxygenated) into organs and muscles. If that is the case then neurological problems could be simply one side-effect of that mechanism failure.

 

[Indeliblelink]

What evidence do you have for making that assertion, when that's not what is being shown generally?

Well I did see this earlier but I don't claim to to be knowledgeable enough to say it backs that post up.

Mapping the antigenic diversification of SARS-CoV-2

Large-scale vaccination campaigns have prevented countless SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations and deaths. However, the emergence of variants that escape from immunity challenges the effectiveness of current vaccines. Given this continuing evolution, an important question is when and how to...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[elbows]

I'd be cautious claiming vaccines have much effect with Omicron at all.

You were ignorant enough to refer to vaccines as 'so-called vaccines' long before Omicron arrived.

You seem to treat the subject in a binary way - if vaccines cant prevent the vast majority of infections and transmission then you end up with an absurdly low opinion of them.

Omicron has eroded some of the gains of vaccination. We are still in the middle of finding out to what extent that is the case. But it is already beyond obvious that Omicrons impact on vaccinations is nowhere near enough to claim that we are back to square one, not even close.

In this complex reality, big issues that need to be grappled with going forwards do not involve a stupid binary view. Rather, they involve stuff such as whether we need to get modified versions of the vaccines into mass production, and quite how often we are expecting to have to give boosters to people, and how large a section of the population needs to receive them on a more regular basis in order for health care systems to cope. And all of this is tied into further unknowns about future variants, future waves, or whether something resembling 'endemic equilibrium' is actually achieved, and at what levels of infection and hospitalisation such a state settled on.

A current BBC major headline raises one or two of those questions, but there arent so many answers at this stage.

Covid: Vaccines for all every four to six months not needed, says expert

The most vulnerable should be prioritised for further doses instead, says Prof Sir Andrew Pollard.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[elbows]

I probably should of mentioned that boosters have been used in the short-term to restore some of what was lost via Omicron vaccine impact erosion. They may have been able to compensate for this erosion to a huge degree, its still a little early to give final thoughts on that, but the impact of boosters seems to have been highly significant.

And one of the problems we've had up till this point is that some of the easiest studies to do quickly with vaccines and new variants involve antibody levels and how they cope with Omicron. Other parts of the immune system are a bit tricker to grasp, although some such studies have now arrived, but there are still gaps in our understanding. Some of these gaps end up being filled in by real world data once we get lots of hospital data during a large wave of the variant. Some questions are answered as a result, but many future uncertainties that are a major pain in the arse remain.

 

[platinumsage]

Well I did see this earlier but I don't claim to to be knowledgeable enough to say it backs that post up.

Mapping the antigenic diversification of SARS-CoV-2

Large-scale vaccination campaigns have prevented countless SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations and deaths. However, the emergence of variants that escape from immunity challenges the effectiveness of current vaccines. Given this continuing evolution, an important question is when and how to...

www.medrxiv.org

We already know that antibody responses to Omicron are much reduced with these vaccines, but that's only one part of the immune system. This sort of research has already been overtaken by other studies. These researchers appear to normally be focused on influenza, where these sorts of diagrams are very relevant to annual vaccine updates and the antigenic drift that is the hallmark of influenza viruses. I'm not sure this sort of study is so relevant when applied to coronaviruses but I guess they didn't want to pass up on the chance to get their oar in.

 

[zahir]

Numbers in ICU still rising in South Africa.

 

[a_chap]

Australia....