Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Were you at the Woking place on 10th December?
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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Were you at the Woking place on 10th December?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Not quite that simple. I usually get offered mine through NHS work, but didn't this year. My GP got in touch and offered it, but I'm under 50 and with no underlying health issues and when I asked they said they'd widened the offer quite a bit due to covid this year.
not sure I'm 100% sure on your point and sorry if the way I phrased it sounded blase. my point is it's an incredibly small number and we don't even know how many of that incredibly small number - if any - are actually due to covid. so i disagree with your point that the country is in the wrong for not being more affected by this.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
So only for 40 - 50 YoS in Woking?
I dunno, I didn't have a booster anywhere else so can't comment on other places, and as said, Woking wasn't offering them the day before. But Frau Bahn did get a sticker and I didn't, so all's fair really.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
oh and if you do ever get offered a Covid jab and a flu jab at the same time, get them to do both in the same arm unless you can sleep flat on your back or front.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Matters relating to children from the most recently available SAGE minutes:
The type 1 diabetes stuff bothers me most about the UK approach to children in this pandemic, but then I am sensitive to this topic because both my brother and nephew developed type 1 diabetes before they were adults. My brothers manifested not long after a huge flu epidemic in 1989/90 and my nephews developed during the pandemic. Genetic susceptibility combined with infection as a trigger seems very plausible. By the way, I previously reported that they both caught Covid recently, and I am now pleased to report that they seem to have gotten through this without any complications. I cannot say whether this was their first infection due to a lack of testing in the first wave. My brother was triple-vaccinated. Whether a previous covid infection triggered my nephews diabetes remains a possibility, but I doubt whether we will ever know for sure.
The type 1 diabetes stuff bothers me most about the UK approach to children in this pandemic, but then I am sensitive to this topic because both my brother and nephew developed type 1 diabetes before they were adults. My brothers manifested not long after a huge flu epidemic in 1989/90 and my nephews developed during the pandemic. Genetic susceptibility combined with infection as a trigger seems very plausible. By the way, I previously reported that they both caught Covid recently, and I am now pleased to report that they seem to have gotten through this without any complications. I cannot say whether this was their first infection due to a lack of testing in the first wave. My brother was triple-vaccinated. Whether a previous covid infection triggered my nephews diabetes remains a possibility, but I doubt whether we will ever know for sure.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
I wasn't commenting on COVID-19 but on the virtues or not of the flu vaccine given my experience getting flu when young and healthy.
You can infer anything you like about covid from my sample of one.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
After careful consideration I'm going to go with "nothing".
elbows
Well-Known Member
The numbers are small, some of them did die of covid.
Risk factors include being male, developmental disorders and neurological conditions, being at the older end of childhood, certain ethnicities, multiple chronic disabilities. If I cast a wider net to look at reports from countries like the USA, and hospitalisations rather than only deaths, stuff like obesity, type 1 diabetes also show up.
Due to the higher case numbers in recent waves, I expect a broader picture to emerge in future.
Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in particular requires a deeper look at, I havent done much reading on this yet.
Here are a bunch of example articles:
Underlying conditions common among kids and teens who die of Covid-19
The report also showed stark racial disparities in Covid-19 deaths among children.
www.nbcnews.com
Underlying Medical Conditions and Severe COVID-19 Illness Among Children
This cross-sectional study examines the risk of severe COVID-19 illness among children associated with underlying medical conditions and medical complexity.
jamanetwork.com
Covid: Children's extremely low risk confirmed by study
The overall risk of death is around two in a million children, scientists looking at England's data estimate.
www.bbc.co.uk
Daily Mail understates the risks of Covid-19 to children - Full Fact
Severe disease and death are very rare, but still more common than the Mail claimed.
fullfact.org
Attitudes and studies of child death are a strange subject, there has been a tendency to brush a lot of it under the carpet in various ways, including not studying things properly via not collecting data properly. I still think we can explore this topic via the earlier point about the reduction in paediatric intensive care admissions due to lockdowns etc. But taking it further, by looking at deaths. For example here is an article from December and I will quote lots of notable bits:
Child deaths fell 10% during first year of pandemic
Researchers credit likely record low to reduced deaths by infection during winter lockdown
That this database is a first of its kind initiative speaks volumes!
Is there a big conversation about these things? I think not, which tells us something about attitudes towards the death of vulnerable children.
As usual I am also inclined to focus on stuff like hospital-acquired infections, and it might be possible to tie in some of whats been seen with a reduction in various forms of surgery and other medical procedures over the period, greater emphasis on infection control etc.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
So much this!
Children are people.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Which doesn't alter the practical reality that a lot of unvaccinated children are currently mingling with no mitigation whatsoever.
Those kids will likely still die in road accidents. I'm not sure that kind of comparison is all that helpful.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The comparison is relevant as far as the question of "acceptable risk" is concerned though.
There are lots of things we could do to reduce the number of kids killed in road accidents, but we don't because people want the benefits of not doing those things. (As it happens, I think we should do many of those things, but that's not for this thread)
elbows
Well-Known Member
So in regards my previous post, lets asume we wont even be able to have a sensible conversation about saving 356 vulnerable children from death via respiratory diseases by having a full lockdown every winter.
But we could attempt to explore a milder version of that.
Lets say we wore masks every winter. We cannot say exactly how many vulnerable children would avoid death each winter if we did, but we could estimate that the number might be higher than 1 and quite a bit less than 356. How many would it take to be considered worthwhile?
But we could attempt to explore a milder version of that.
Lets say we wore masks every winter. We cannot say exactly how many vulnerable children would avoid death each winter if we did, but we could estimate that the number might be higher than 1 and quite a bit less than 356. How many would it take to be considered worthwhile?
l'Otters
.
Exactly, we haven’t protected children.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I think this deserves a thread of its own.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
This was done to distract people from Boris Johnson and happy ending the ERG.
Any public health concerns anyone might have right now are utterly irelevant to the stupidest govenment in history.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Vaccinating children is not about protecting children first and foremost. Not really. Vaccinating children should have been done over the last six months to reduce the spread and save other people's lives - the lives of their grandparents and great-grandparents. That rationale was rejected by the UK government back in June. As a result, probably thousands of people have died unnecessarily. It was, imo, a terrible decision.
The main benefit to the children themselves would have been a big reduction in the disruption to their lives. Better to be vaccinated than to be stuck in bubbles and facemasks all day.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Those sort of graphs always have a little downward trend at the end due to reporting delays, so I wouldn’t assume tailing off yet, such changes won’t be apparent for a week or two.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Yes but loads of pharmacists do it and they (in theory at least) update the NHS database you've had it. we just ring up our local pharmacist and book a date. Then we hope that it is the lady pharmacist on duty that day, she's fine but her husband clearly wanted a job operating pneumatic drills but settled for being a pharmacist.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The downward trend is visible between about the 15th and 19th January, so it's already a week or two in the past.
prunus
Tick tock.
I've been getting a flu jab from Boots (about £15 I think) for about a decade (I'm 50 now though so can get it free ) - I had really nasty flus* in winter 2000/2001 and 2008/2009 (I think) - the first one was particularly scary - I passed out, just suddenly collapsed, in St Martins Lane (passers-by called ambulance, no-one tried to lift my wallet, it was a powerful learning experience about the kindness of strangers). Both times I was floored for 3-4 weeks. I figured £15/year to lessen the chance of that happening again was more than worth it, even without considering beneficial effects of reduced transmission etc.
* I only call it flu because that was what I was told the first time (I assume hospital tested for it? I didn't ask at the time) and the second time felt basically the same - either one could have been a different respiratory virus of course.
) - I had really nasty flus* in winter 2000/2001 and 2008/2009 (I think) - the first one was particularly scary - I passed out, just suddenly collapsed, in St Martins Lane (passers-by called ambulance, no-one tried to lift my wallet, it was a powerful learning experience about the kindness of strangers). Both times I was floored for 3-4 weeks. I figured £15/year to lessen the chance of that happening again was more than worth it, even without considering beneficial effects of reduced transmission etc.* I only call it flu because that was what I was told the first time (I assume hospital tested for it? I didn't ask at the time) and the second time felt basically the same - either one could have been a different respiratory virus of course.
I dunno, the hospitalization rates in children are sky-high at the moment, and there's 100k+ cases of pediatric long covid. I'd quite like my kids to be vaccinated for their sakes, and I'll take my own chances.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
And that's why I think abandoning "Plan B" [weak as it is] is the wrong thing to do at this moment. Maybe they should have waited another month to six weeks, when the decline in cases would be showing clearly up here in the NorthEast [as I suspect we were the last mainland area to really get started with the Omicron wave]
Insufficient vaccinations [not just the boosters] and no mitigations against transmission will mean that Omicron will continue to rampage across the UK. Also, I suspect that there are still quite a few Delta cases lurking, as the UK still had a lot of them when the new variant arrived.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I watched this video today - somewhere around here he mentions the upper-respiratory focus of Omicron and the relative narrowness of the tract in children.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Dr. Gregory Poland in that video heavily emphasises the importance of really good masks.
l'Otters
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