Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[elbows]

This is the latest data for hospital admissions/diagnoses in England by age group. Data goes up to October 13th. Three different ways of looking at the same numbers.

I'm still upset that I dont think the media ever properly highlighted the fact that the proportion of admissions made up by people aged 65 and over became substantially greater after the July peak. They really should have gone on about this given the prominence of their earlier stories about how the younger, unvaccinated made up a more significant chunk of admissions in the first part of this wave.

 

[teqniq]

Thread from Deepti Gurdasani

There is a possible connection to Cameron (from a rather long and diligently researched thread)

 

[Mation]

In addition to wishing they didn't exist at all, and amongst many other things about this shit show, I do wish the company wasn't called Illumina. A nice little Maraschino jobby to plop on some tasty conspiraloon cake.

 

[andysays]

In addition to wishing they didn't exist at all, and amongst many other things about this shit show, I do wish the company wasn't called Illumina. A nice little Maraschino jobby to plop on some tasty conspiraloon cake.

It's good that someone's keeping an eye on the whole pyramid of nepotism and corruption though...

 

[teqniq]

.

 

[platinumsage]

Illumina have basically had a near-monopoly on genome sequencing kit for over 20 years, not sure it's quite the scoop he thinks it is.

 

[Mation]

Cross-posting this from the Covid thread. It would appear that Cameron may well be involved:

You posted that on this thread yesterday. Did you mean to post it somewhere else?

 

[teqniq]

You posted that on this thread yesterday. Did you mean to post it somewhere else?

Thank you, yes I did.

 

[Mation]

Thank you, yes I did.

For a split second, when I saw it posted twice in quick succession, I thought it was the bandwidth thread

 

[Supine]

She isn’t happy…

 

[elbows]

Reasons more people arent angrier include:

Excessive emphasis on those most directly at risk of hospitalisation and death, as opposed to long covid or even basic stuff such as case explosions in one age group feeding into other age groups.

Media misdirection, and things like a lack of regular government pandemic press conferences.

A tradition of not actually placing the welfare of our children very highly on the list of priorities we actually do something about. Big talk at times, little action.

Too many people being willing to look the other way if it means preserving a partial return to normal and the childcare that schools provide.

Various combinations of the above feeding into unimpressive groupthink. Including passively waiting to see if the situation deteriorates to such an extent that the powers that be are forced to act, rather than trying to force their hand earlier.


Personally I am just as angry in this phase as I was about earlier failings. But I have found myself spending less time turning this anger into written words, because even I eventually get sick of how much repetition there is in my rants. Also my feelings about vaccinating children were complicated by my opinions about global vaccine equity and global vaccine supply priorities in that regard. But I expect the way I would try to have my cake and eat it in that regard would not be popular either, because it would have meant keeping various restrictions in place for longer, and actually bothering with the best possible mitigation measures in schools, while waiting till the rest of the world has vaccinated the most vulnerable.

 

[_Russ_]

Too many people being willing to look the other way if it means preserving a partial return to normal and the childcare that schools provide.

This is a big one and wont be discussed because criticism of parenting is some sort of taboo

 

[StoneRoad]

Well, my SIL isn't happy. After all their care in shielding ...

The youngest member of their three-generation household (probably) brought the plague back from school - no symptoms - and everyone else has now tested +ve and they are isolating.

(SIL is isolating, but will probably stay testing -ve, as her health vulnerabilities and key NHS worker status meant she got a booster jab within a week of the programme starting ...)


Bezza's SiL & her OH + family have all just had covid ... but are now recovered.
Source in their case was a twat coming in with covid symptoms at OH's place of work [coughing etc] ...

 

[nagapie]

This is a big one and wont be discussed because criticism of parenting is some sort of taboo

It's not a criticism. Parents have to work, there was never a law during the entire pandemic that you had to give paid leave to parents whose children were sent home to isolate. I should know, I ended up owing my employer money for this reason. Also being stuck at home unable to go out and see friends and family is not normal parenting, it's not like parents just want to get out of their responsibilites, it was a very stressful and abnormal situation.

 

[elbows]

This is a big one and wont be discussed because criticism of parenting is some sort of taboo

Well it goes well beyond parenting and we hear from many parents who arent happy with the situation. But there is a difference between being unhappy about it and actively trying to do something about it, especially in a country where much establishment effort goes into discouraging people from believing that they can make a real difference to how things are done. Many non-parents arent happy with the situation either. But even in these cases there is much for people to feel conflicted about, and for now 'muddle on' in anguished resignation (or ignorant and false sense of relief for those that think the pandemic is mostly all over) has won.

I expect there is loads more I could say but I have run out of energy for today.

 

[elbows]

But I just have energy left to say that I would invite people to look at the landscape here in the current pandemic phase, including the media in recent months, and think about how similar it is to what we'd have had to put up with in this country if the authorities had been able to stick to their 'original plan A' for dealing with this pandemic. Much of what we have seen in recent months is how "carry on with our lives" would have looked under that plan. They only abandoned that plan because the number of hospitalisations wasnt workable, and people were not going to stagger into oblivion once the magnitude of that threat became so obvious.

Its entirely unsurprising that at the first opportunity the establishment returned to their orthodox approach, the classic approach of paying lip service to stuff whilst entertaining really shitty priorities and not coming up with the necessary funding, sense of urgency or basic fucking decency. Half-arsed antics with a backdrop of grotesque inequality - whilst they make pretty speeches you will be ripped to shreds. Vaccines, favourable seasons and enough people still being cautious enabled this approach so far. The question for the authorities and everyone else is whether the numbers will remain within levels that hospitals can just about hope to cope with, whether the approach is sustainable over autumn and winter. If not, the establishment will begrudgingly be forced to bring back some stuff and belatedly put a bit more effort in and stop encouraging people to think its all over. Whether that happens is not a question I can answer yet, although if cases rise at a fast enough rate then it wouldnt take all that many weeks to find out.

 

[StoneRoad]

I still think that dropping the mask mandate down to "personal choice" and removing [almost all] the other precautions was idiotic permitting deaths by corporate negligence.
"They" don't care about the health & well-being of the general population or any particular minority group, only getting the economy [ie party donations] moving again. The corollary from that policy [herd immunity, mark II] is increased cases, hospitalisations and deaths, only the quantity of the latter two have been reduced by the vaccines.
As I have said before, you can rebuild an economy from almost total collapse [although the furlough scheme, WFH and the online economy prevented much of that] but what even the best medical hospital can't do is reverse deaths from covid.

 

[Brainaddict]

I get angry when I think about it but I have a lot on my plate at the moment and the anger feels unproductive, so tbh I'm trying not to think about it. If people with more energy than me were organising big protests against current policies I'd happily turn up to support, but it feels like we're a long way from that situation. Like Pagel I'm a bit baffled that parents at least aren't a bit more pissed off. Decades of conservative 'speaking as a parent I feel I need to do batshit things in order to prevent all risks to little Timmy' and when an actual threat comes along those same parents just shrug and go along with it. (I know not all parents are just shrugging btw)

 

[Thora]

Because for most parents covid doesn't feel like a threat to their children. The risks of social isolation, impact on education, stress at home etc are much greater.

 

[StoneRoad]

Because for most parents covid doesn't feel like a threat to their children. The risks of social isolation, impact on education, stress at home etc are much greater.

But, kids themselves may not be suffering with covid, however, they bring the infection home and it gets spread that way to more vulnerable adults.

That's probably what has happened at my SiL's a few days ago.

 

[IC3D]

If vulnerable adults are protected by a vaccine then why do kids need it when they a better protected by natural imunity. It's endemic now.

 

[xenon]

I still think that dropping the mask mandate down to "personal choice" and removing [almost all] the other precautions was idiotic permitting deaths by corporate negligence.
They don't care about the health & well-being of the general population or any particular minority group, only getting the economy [ie party donations] moving again. The corollary from that policy [herd immunity, mark II] is increased cases, hospitalisations and deaths, only the quantity of the latter two have been reduced by the vaccines.
As I have said before, you can rebuild an economy from almost total collapse [although the furlough scheme, WFH and the online economy prevented much of that] but what even the best medical hospital can't do is reverse deaths from covid.

Just quibbling with your last point. An economy near total collapse kills and destroys lives too. You don't have to be a free market fanatic to see this. Rebuilding it to a comprable standard isn't necessarily possible. Look at countries with economies in such a state and wonder about life chances their. This would be so regardless of the particular government in power.

 

[2hats]

If vulnerable adults are protected by a vaccine then why do kids need it when they a better protected by natural imunity. It's endemic now.

Vulnerable adults, and vulnerable children too, are protected (degrees of) by those around them being vaccinated (as well as themselves being vaccinated, if that is an option).

All ages are better protected by vaccine induced immunity following a natural infection. Vaccine induced immunity before natural infection is, of course, far less risky.

 

[StoneRoad]

Just quibbling with your last point. An economy near total collapse kills and destroys lives too. You don't have to be a free market fanatic to see this. Rebuilding it to a comparable standard isn't necessarily possible. Look at countries with economies in such a state and wonder about life chances their. This would be so regardless of the particular government in power.

I don't disagree with your point.
Poverty kills just as surely ...
And we do need to have a rebuilding process with a more environmentally friendly outcome to take account of climate change and general pollution not just "economic" targets.

 

[existentialist]

If vulnerable adults are protected by a vaccine then why do kids need it when they a better protected by natural imunity. It's endemic now.

You've asked "questions" like this before, and had them comprehensively and carefully answered by people whose knowledge is beyond reproach.

And yet you keep on asking the same questions?

 

[Cloo]

The risks of social isolation, impact on education, stress at home etc are much greater

Indeed - y'see, I'd be prepared to go 'Oh just FFS shut schools from Dec-end February' but that's easy for me to say. We have older kids, space and devices for everyone, I have an understanding manager and my husband earns a good salary working on a part time contract. For other parents that scenario is a fucking nightmare that could mean a parent losing their job, vulnerable kids falling desperately behind and so forth.

It's weird, I have started to out and so some stuff in the last few months (theatre, office some work-related events) and I'm a bit wary of the risk... but none of it is as risky as my kids being in school every day NB I expect to stop doing those things Dec until at least end Feb unless numbers miraculously stabilise.

 

[nagapie]

Because for most parents covid doesn't feel like a threat to their children. The risks of social isolation, impact on education, stress at home etc are much greater.

And indeed the impact of successive lockdowns on children is now being seen by educators and the effects on learning, socialisation and mental health is significant. Not only but particularly on the poor and most vulnerable.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Just had a text to say that the PCR test i did when i had some sort of bug last month (result came back negative) may have been dodgy, but since it was 3 - 4 weeks ago, there's not a lot of point in doing anything about it.

I've been doing LFT anything from twice a week to daily (while mum-tat was in hospital) since and they have all been negative so i probably didn't have it

hmm

 

[gentlegreen]

I was walking home from the park earlier with the high street moderately busy ... I'll sometimes cross the street and back to avoid a busy bus stop, but today I wanted the sunshine... I'll put a low-grade mask on when it gets too crowded for comfort, but today I was initially just hanging back, and this young woman sneezed twice into the breeze in front of me ... at the end of the day a very low chance of infection and I've survived 18 months like this, but it did make me wonder if she even gave any thought to what she'd done ... she didn't look around to see me holding my breath and putting my mask on ...

 

[existentialist]

Indeed - y'see, I'd be prepared to go 'Oh just FFS shut schools from Dec-end February' but that's easy for me to say. We have older kids, space and devices for everyone, I have an understanding manager and my husband earns a good salary working on a part time contract. For other parents that scenario is a fucking nightmare that could mean a parent losing their job, vulnerable kids falling desperately behind and so forth.

It's weird, I have started to out and so some stuff in the last few months (theatre, office some work-related events) and I'm a bit wary of the risk... but none of it is as risky as my kids being in school every day NB I expect to stop doing those things Dec until at least end Feb unless numbers miraculously stabilise.

I completely agree with your point, but I think the way to deal with it is not to continue the pretence that sending children to school will somehow miraculously not affect the transmission of the virus, but to honestly (and there's the problem ) admit that a balance is having to be struck between infectivity and enabling some part of the population to go about their business, throwing in the social benefits of children being able to interact again for good measure.

This attempt to try and pretend that it's all OK and that no compromises need to be - or are being - made is transparent, and just dilutes the general positive safety messages that are out there...or should be.