elbows
Well-Known Member
I call pubs and restaurants being shut quite a notable difference. Buy yes, in various ways tier 3 is not enough either. But I'd much rather be in a tier 3 area, which I currently am (Warwickshire) than a tier 2 area.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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I call pubs and restaurants being shut quite a notable difference. Buy yes, in various ways tier 3 is not enough either. But I'd much rather be in a tier 3 area, which I currently am (Warwickshire) than a tier 2 area.
I’d hope that they won’t be thinking too much about “saving” Christmas when reviewing the tiers and instead focus on the infection rates and what the experts advise. But I’m not that naive!
I wish they’d delayed laying out the plans for Christmas until nearer the time because they have put people’s hopes up about Christmas, some have already started/done food/gift shopping in preparation for 3 households getting together for how ever long.So this makes me think that the government won’t change their minds no matter the covid trend prior to Christmas ( incoherent rambling over)
elbows
Well-Known Member
I dont have the detail firmly in my brain but I'm pretty sure the same shitty attitudes towards masks in the classroom still exists in the minds of the English establishment.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
And at least pubs and restaurants forced to close will have to be helped. Right now it's "Oh, you can serve booze but only with a substantial meal" which most pub goers can't afford to do; or in other words "You can stay open but too bad if it ain't a viable business model!"
this simply isn't anything like true
maomao
普費斯
Compulsory outside of classrooms but not inside them where I work. About as well enforced as tie wearing (in that 99% of kids will have them on but a sizeable minority are wearing them wrong in some way).
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Where we are masks are mandatory indoors in corridors etc, optional in classrooms. Staff have to wear masks in corridors and other shared spaces and when close to students in classrooms, but not while teaching at the front of the class. Much of this is adhered to and enforced indifferently.
it's sentimentality that's the barrier as far as I can tell. We can't allow our darlings to be isolated from each other like this!
Cid
Proper break this time
Why do they tie shit like reviews to set dates? I mean obviously it does make sense to say 'we're going to have a review on x date regardless', but if the situation changes, shift the damn thing. I do also realise that it makes sense to time things according to when you have a full picture of the data, maybe that's partly the case here... But it's something that has been there to an extent throughout. Like starting measures after a last weekend down the pub. Clunky centralised responses. There is emergency legislation you can use. It's a fucking virus, it's not working to a timetable.
elbows
Well-Known Member
The most they would have considered doing before 2020 ended was via the tier system, and almost all of the tier rules do not change over the Christmas relaxation period.
The Christmas relaxations involve travel and families meeting in private. They dont affect whether pubs or restaurants are open and whether multiple households are allowed to meet in such settings.
So if everyone is making plans based on what they are really allowed to do under the announced Christmas rules, those plans should not be affected by any tier allocation changes made before Christmas.
So its all the other usual pressures that I would blame for any crap tier decisions, rather than pressure because there is a Christmas relaxation incompatibility with certain tiers rules. The way they've set things up means they cannot be incompatible, the Christmas rules work in all tiers and indeed across the four nations.
Cid
Proper break this time
Fair point. Still, it is a rather fatal way of doing things.
Well in tier 2, you can have a pint and scotch egg at the pub on your own, no mixing with other households. Very festive...
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Erm...you sure?
I live in Wales. My grandchildren live on the edge of London. They are currently Tier 2. If they move to Tier 3 before Christmas I can't see them as we're banned from travelling to tier 3 areas.
elbows
Well-Known Member
In general when trying to make judgements based on data its always tempting to want an extra weeks data, but that temptation never really stops. Sometimes there is a logic to waiting a particular period of time, eg to allow enough time to see the result of some previous measures or relaxations. For example part of the current alarm is that recent data doesnt even reflect too much of the post-national-measures period yet, we are seeing bad signs from data for London etc because things seemed to have taken a bad turn there before the national measures even ended. And it was also possible to judge that putting London in tier 2 looked like a bad idea when they made that decision, never mind waiting till the next review for confirmation.
The other reason they like to put timetables on things is to provide some business certainty for planning purposes. Even when its bad news for the business in question, at least they end up with a sense of when things could next change. This is useful although it sometimes leads to people feeling like they are just being strung along. When Leicester was placed under stricter measures the likes of Johnson tried to make noises about how they hoped things would only last a matter of days and would be frequently reviewed, but as of the previous tier decisions made in late November, Leicester had been under restrictions for 150 days.
ska invita
back on the other side
Ffs
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Are Tier 3 people allowed to visit Tier 2 people at Christmas?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yes and I'm sure and they crafted the whole thing this way deliberately, to offer certainty in very specific and limited ways that wont be spoilt by tier decisions. Only an emergency of great intensity and immediacy that quickly forced new national measures could scupper this stuff.
Wales version of the guidance:
Travel to/from bubble bits, my bold:
And a travel bit from the England guidelines to help confirm what I'm on about:
And Scotland:
Coronavirus in Scotland - gov.scot
Up to date information on the coronavirus situation in Scotland, including what you can do, statistics and data, how to get tested, links to support and guidance and the Scottish Government's phased approach to exiting lockdown.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Yes and I'm sure and they crafted the whole thing this way deliberately, to offer certainty in very specific and limited ways that wont be spoilt by tier decisions. Only an emergency of great intensity and immediacy that quickly forced new national measures could scupper this stuff.
Wales version of the guidance:
Travel to/from bubble bits, my bold:
And a travel bit from the England guidelines to help confirm what I'm on about:
And Scotland:
Coronavirus in Scotland - gov.scot
Up to date information on the coronavirus situation in Scotland, including what you can do, statistics and data, how to get tested, links to support and guidance and the Scottish Government's phased approach to exiting lockdown.www.gov.scot
Cheers. I never knew that.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
I think I can forego seeing my S-i-L and her extended household in person this "festive season" . I would much rather wait for a few weeks (month or three) until we've all had our jabs. There are two small kids (one with serious health issues, and the other is a real hugger) and of the adults, three have serious health issues of their own. I've managed without visits for more than nine months ...
OH could rig up something like zoom ... if we really needed the contact.
OH could rig up something like zoom ... if we really needed the contact.
elbows
Well-Known Member
When I think of the extent to which the country might 'get away with' the Christmas relaxations, or the extent to which they make things much worse, there are two big factors in my mind. The number of people infected at the time the relaxation begins, and the number of people who decide not to have all the family meetups that the Christmas rules allow. And the governments full Christmas guidance does include bits where they try to discourage people from physically meeting.
So as with various other things in this pandemic, I do allow myself to be slightly reassured when I hear people talking about how they are not going to push their behaviour and contact micing patterns right up to the maximum limits of what the rules allow. When people are sensible and go further with precautions than they have to, they are helping to compensate for all the people who wont or cant behave in a perfect pandemic-suppressing manner at all times.
So as with various other things in this pandemic, I do allow myself to be slightly reassured when I hear people talking about how they are not going to push their behaviour and contact micing patterns right up to the maximum limits of what the rules allow. When people are sensible and go further with precautions than they have to, they are helping to compensate for all the people who wont or cant behave in a perfect pandemic-suppressing manner at all times.
My mum and dad, who have had a fairly lax approach throughout, told me they aren't having anyone. Quite surprised tbh.
I've no idea how common this is likely to be, but they're the bellwether for the average boomer for me, so it might be more widespread then expected...
My sister's parents-in-law were exactly the same. Said they wouldn't be having anyone in their house till they'd been vaccinated. She was very surprised as they've been pretty relaxed about it up till now too. (My sister's quite pleased as the logistics were going to be very difficult.)
I should think this pattern would be part of the modelling?
clicker
nanook rubs it....
I reckon and hope it could be quite common. Speaking to a couple of friends today, both usually host quite big and lovely family get togethers. But both battening down the hatches and keeping things simple. Much more simple than technically allowed. That seems good to me, we've nearly done a year of this crap, why blow it now.
Yeah, we've thought about the various options available to us and all of them involve more risk than we're prepared to take, so me and Mrs B are most likely just having christmas with the two of us. It was a fairly simple decision once we'd actually sat down and looked at it.
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