Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Does a pint of Guinness count as a substantial meal?

 

[Raheem]

Does a pint of Guinness count as a substantial meal?

No, one is a snack. You need four or five.

 

[maomao]

Surely the substantialness of a meal depends on the eater as much as anything else. A scotch egg is a substantial meal for my five year old (though she'll have a fruit shoot not a beer) but I'd need half a dozen.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Does a pint of Guinness count as a substantial meal?

Only if there's a raw egg added to it.

* brings back nightmares of one of the crazy competitions at the ABC Radio Roadshow, back in the early 80s, when three volunteers came forward to drink a pint & raw egg to win a tenner, and one throw-up all over the stage. I can't remember who ended-up clearing up that mess, but it wasn't me.

 

[killer b]

I would not make any plans to be downwind of you for a while after you'd eaten that meal.

 

[Sue]

Surely the substantialness of a meal depends on the eater as much as anything else. A scotch egg is a substantial meal for my five year old (though she'll have a fruit shoot not a beer) but I'd need half a dozen.

I'm glad you clarified... (Beer is wasted on children.)

 

[Raheem]

(Beer is wasted on children.)

And vice versa.

 

[Steel Icarus]

And vice versa.

 

[weepiper]

Jungle drums tell me that vaccination is starting for medical staff in Edinburgh hospitals from the 7th.

 

[Supine]

Jungle drums tell me that vaccination is starting for medical staff in Edinburgh hospitals from the 7th.

Yeah, FT reporting MHRA to give approval by Dec 7th for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. It has also just started getting air freighted into the US for expected FDA approval by mid Dec.

 

[xenon]

I would not make any plans to be downwind of you for a while after you'd eaten that meal.

"Can you smell gas?"

/Alan Partridge

 

[William of Walworth]

Wales is going back into a semi-lockdown, with pubs etc. having to close by 6 pm, and a ban on them selling alcohol.

Mr Drakeford said: ‘From 6pm on Friday, our national measures will be amended to introduce new restrictions for hospitality and indoor entertainment attractions. ‘Pubs, bars, restaurants and cafes will have to close by 6pm and will not be allowed to serve alcohol. After 6pm they will only be able to provide takeaway services.

‘From the same date, indoor entertainment venues, including cinemas, bingo halls, bowling alleys, soft play centres, casinos, skating rinks and amusement arcades, must close.’

He also defended the implementation of the firebreak lockdown and said it had ‘delivered’ everything the country had hoped for – but suggested the country could have come out of the measures into harsher restrictions. ‘Numbers have gone up faster than we had anticipated or hoped’, he added suggesting that is why today’s action was needed.

Pubs ordered to close by 6pm from Friday as Wales enters new lockdown

There is also a total ban on alcohol sales just three weeks after a 'firebreak' lockdown in the country ended.

metro.co.uk

I wanted to react both and to that, but such is not possible from the 'likes' bit.

A facetious part of me thinks that Drakeford timed today's announcement deliberately to suit my personal convenience -- my Dry December, 1st to 23rd Dec., starts from tomorrow

But!

I was 'out and about' tonight, the last day of November , and friends -- both 'just drinkers' and actual trade -- are all sad and depressed about it -- pubs stand to lose a lot of money, and even food-featuring pubs will lose out a fair bit because of on-premises alcohol sales not being possible.

There's no clarity here about when licenced premises can (properly ) reopen -- there's supposed to be an update later this week, and I saw somewhere that a proper review might (?) emerge on 17th December (a Thursday ... I wonder when the real, non-US, 'Black Friday' is ???)

However, and despite all the above, I really do agree (genuinely) with this (ultra) cautious approach from the Welsh Government ... I just hope the amount of business-support cash they're promising will be enough to stop a depressing number of pubs closing altogether ......

 

[Chilli.s]

Reelly fancies a scotch egg

 

[Hyperdark]

William of W, IMO calling the Welsh Gov's guidance ultra cautious just shows how little people are willing to accept personal responsibility (I call it guidance as it is barely and loosely enforced instead relying on people's sense of responsibility and consideration for others which as we all know is in short supply)

China had a real lockdown and it worked, largely destroying the arguements of businesses, Pub and restauraunt goers who say its not me gov whilst all around infections climb.
Nowhere in the west has done anything like it and nowhere in the West has it under control we will have wave after wave till the majik potion poofs itself into existance.
Whilst I understand why, the Term Lockdown being thrown around by the media to describe what is little more than very loose guidance, that is even more loosely interpreted is a nonsense.

Im very pro - personal responsibility and not following rules for the sake of conformity, doesnt mean that some rules actually make sense

 

[The39thStep]

Is it true you can drink alcohol ( without a substantial meal) in cinemas, sports venues and theatres that are in Tier2 areas?

 

[elbows]

I reckon Burnham will have to stay on my list of pandemic cunts. Not because of reasonable comments about funding which I usually agree with, but because he so often feels the need to make disgusting claims about measures being too strict and it being some kind of avoidable punishment. Fucking cunt.

Covid: Boris Johnson urges MPs to back tough tiers for England

The prime minister said the NHS remained under pressure, despite a four-week national lockdown.

www.bbc.co.uk

Greater Manchester's Labour mayor Andy Burnham said the government was doing to the country in December what it did to Manchester in October which was to "railroad it into a punishing, underfunded lockdown".

He told the Today programme the government was "being too strict in December" to allow the rules to be relaxed for five days over Christmas, saying that "a more balanced approach should have been taken".

 

[Teaboy]

Sounds like both the LibDems & Labour don't want to upset their voters that are against the tiers their local areas are being placed in, whilst having the cover that it'll make no difference to the outcome of the vote.

Basically playing politics, instead of doing the decent thing.

They likely are playing politics because that's how things work in our country. I have no doubt the tories would be making it ten times harder for any labour government trying to enact the exact same policy. In fact it's very easy to see Johnson railing against the injustices of loss of liberty etc etc.

Thing is though this thread has expended a lot of energy on criticism of the government's handling of the pandemic from the start. By any metric you care to use the UK figures are always amongst the worst in the world. It seems rather odd, incongruous even that that we are now talking about just accepting whatever they've decided this week because it's for the greater good. That doesn't seem a very healthy approach to me.

I really don't like the current strategy and it goes way beyond things like Scotch Eggs. I believe there are better ways to save lives and still have some sort of future worth living for. I wouldn't be able to support Government policy as its stands if I was to have to vote. However, given the large majority the government has in the commons its going to pass anyway so abstaining in this regard is a means of registering protest whilst recognizing that there are no other good alternatives being made available.

I don't think blindly following this government is the doing the decent thing but likewise the only alternative to the new proposal is far worse.

 

[andysays]

I reckon Burnham will have to stay on my list of pandemic cunts. Not because of reasonable comments about funding which I usually agree with, but because he so often feels the need to make disgusting claims about measures being too strict and it being some kind of avoidable punishment. Fucking cunt.

Covid: Boris Johnson urges MPs to back tough tiers for England

The prime minister said the NHS remained under pressure, despite a four-week national lockdown.

www.bbc.co.uk

Burnham appears to be attempting to make political capital out of this, presumably hoping to increase his vote for the future.

Not sure how well that will work if all his likely voters are dead from Covid19 though.

 

[andysays]

They likely are playing politics because that's how things work in our country. I have no doubt the tories would be making it ten times harder for any labour government trying to enact the exact same policy. In fact it's very easy to see Johnson railing against the injustices of loss of liberty etc etc.

Thing is though this thread has expended a lot of energy on criticism of the government's handling of the pandemic from the start. By any metric you care to use the UK figures are always amongst the worst in the world. It seems rather odd, incongruous even that that we are now talking about just accepting whatever they've decided this week because it's for the greater good. That doesn't seem a very healthy approach to me.

I really don't like the current strategy and it goes way beyond things like Scotch Eggs. I believe there are better ways to save lives and still have some sort of future worth living for. I wouldn't be able to support Government policy as its stands if I was to have to vote. However, given the large majority the government has in the commons its going to pass anyway so abstaining in this regard is a means of registering protest whilst recognizing that there are no other good alternatives being made available.

I don't think blindly following this government is the doing the decent thing but likewise the only alternative to the new proposal is far worse.

Don't see too many people here arguing we should be blindly and uncritically following the government line, TBH

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don't think blindly following this government is the doing the decent thing but likewise the only alternative to the new proposal is far worse.

It's not just the UK government, it's agreed by all four nations.

 

[Teaboy]

Don't see too many people here arguing we should be blindly and uncritically following the government line, TBH

The post I was responding to? The opposition parties are getting criticised (in the same language that Johnson uses) for not towing the line.

 

[andysays]

The post I was responding to? The opposition parties are getting criticised (in the same language that Johnson uses) for not towing the line.

Not sure that's true, and it's "toeing" the line, not "towing"

 

[Teaboy]

Not sure that's true, and it's "toeing" the line, not "towing"

Ok

 

[elbows]

It's not just the UK government, it's agreed by all four nations.

Oh this again.

Look, I have a memory, and I well remember that back near the start of this thing you had a 'trust the government' approach. And part of your framing at the time was to repeatedly point to agreement by all four nations when it suited your argument, as some kind of proof that the right thing was being done. And you would accuse the leaders of those nations of playing politics on the occasions where they publicly failed to agree with Johnson & Co.

I'm sure your impression of how good a job of handling this pandemic the Johnson government have managed has changed since then, but this basic game of accusing other of playing politics when it suits and pointing to the four nations agreement when that suits remains unchanged. I do not think this approach does justice to the issues, and indeed the claim that others are playing politics is usually a form of playing politics itself.

 

[killer b]

I saw some stuff in the news the other day that suggested London was placed into tier 2 instead of tier 3 after aggressive lobbying about job losses in the hospitality and entertainments industry - while I'm not keen on the narrative of punishment many local leaders are leaning into, the question does need to be asked why these job losses are bearable in Manchester and Birmingham (and Preston, Lancaster, Leeds and Newcastle etc etc) but not in London.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It's not just the UK government, it's agreed by all four nations.

I'm sure that Westminster will tell the other nations what to do.

 

[killer b]

What is 'playing politics' anyway? It all just looks like 'politics' to me.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Oh this again.

Look, I have a memory, and I well remember that back near the start of this thing you had a 'trust the government' approach. And part of your framing at the time was to repeatedly point to agreement by all four nations when it suited your argument, as some kind of proof that the right thing was being done. And you would accuse the leaders of those nations of playing politics on the occasions where they publicly failed to agree with Johnson & Co.

I'm sure your impression of how good a job of handling this pandemic the Johnson government have managed has changed since then, but this basic game of accusing other of playing politics when it suits and pointing to the four nations agreement when that suits remains unchanged. I do not think this approach does justice to the issues, and indeed the claim that others are playing politics is usually a form of playing politics itself.

That's somewhat unfair, my 'trust the government' approach was for a fucking very limited time, before it became clear a couple of weeks before lockdown that we were in a worst mess than the scientists had suggested. And, I don't recall accusing the leaders of the other nations of playing politics, well certainly not after the point I lost all faith in the UK government, and what the scientists had been saying.

 

[The39thStep]

Burnham appears to be attempting to make political capital out of this, presumably hoping to increase his vote for the future.

Not sure how well that will work if all his likely voters are dead from Covid19 though.

Funnily enough the Tory line of attack was that Burnham was just making political capital. He was elected with nearly 65% of the vote last time. You may or may not agree with some of his comments on covid (which to be frank are hardly heretical) but he has been extremely consistent on the effects of decades of economic and political decision making that does nothing to address inequalities in the deindustrialised north which covid has worsened.

 

[elbows]

That's somewhat unfair, my 'trust the government' approach was for a fucking very limited time, before it became clear a couple of weeks before lockdown that we were in a worst mess than the scientists had suggested. And, I don't recall accusing the leaders of the other nations of playing politics, well certainly not after the point I lost all faith in the UK government, and what the scientists had been saying.

Perhaps my memory has overinflated certain aspects. All I know is that once I'd seen that pattern a few times, I had to bite my tongue on several further occasions, resisting making the sort of response to you that I did earlier today. I was quite pleased with myself for resisting because I thought that your overall pandemic output was much improved. But on this latest occasion my sense of 'oh not again' was too much for me and I blurted out my opinion about this particular angle.