Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[existentialist]

This is true. Perhaps the other thing some people are missing is that they're not expecting 100% compliance with this, as with other Covid measures. It's like the rules on face masks. In an ideal world everyone would have to wear a medical-grade mask in any public space, but that's just not going to happen and trying to make it so would probably be counterproductive, and since any face covering is a lot better than none the rules are framed so as to allow people to cover up with pretty much what they like.* Similarly, they're well aware that groups of more than six are going to continue meeting, but probably a lot less and not so much in public places, which will help to drive down transmission. There's a sensible degree of flexibility built into quite a few of the restrictions IMO.

*That's not to say the rules on masks are being enforced adequately: they just aren't. Shops and public transport providers, especially, should be much more aggressive about refusing service to people who won't mask up.

And they should have adequate backup from "the authorities" to ensure that they are able to enforce. I can well understand the dilemma of some shop assistant faced with a refusenik non-mask-wearer - do they risk a violent confrontation, or just serve the twat and get them out of the shop?

Of course - as was the case with drink-driving - the smart move would have been to be constantly bolstering the public view that masks were an essential part of limiting infection, and support for the measures, so that social pressure became an important part of compliance. The utterly incoherent approach the government has used has pretty much ensured the opposite.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Yes and imo it's those one or two who then spend the entire journey telling Alan to get dog food from aldi, at the top of their voice. I'm at the judgey stage. .

I, too, have noticed this phenomenon.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

One thing I have noticed on buses is an announcement that goes along the lines of "wearing masks on public transport is mandatory and there are police and transport officers patrolling the network to enforce this". Can't say I've seen any.

 

[elbows]

Yeah. I can just imagine in meetings he's constantly coming up with stuff they just have to knock back with facts. He's a bit mutating into Trump before our eyes I think. He's one of those people that under pressure just keeps talking and coming up with ever more bonkers ideas rather than shutting up and listening and thinking. And who can blame him, look where it's got him so far...

I dont think this is much of a change, he was just the same with Brexit and I assume he has form for that sort of thing during his days as mayor. Now those water cannons will never be used to water garden bridge.

He is said to be fascinated by Trump though, which probably just means being fascinated by Trumps ability to push things even further, dazzled by Trumps 'successes' in running roughshod over conventions and norms, and keen to take their own propaganda in a similar direction, albeit with dog-whistled tuned to a certain narrow UK audience.

Meanwhile:

Leader of the House of Commons Jacob Rees-Mogg is self-isolating while a family member awaits a coronavirus test result.

Deputy Chief Whip Stuart Andrew told the Commons: "A member of the leader of the House's household is awaiting a Covid test result after having been symptomatic. The leader is therefore self-isolating along with his family."

from 11:22 of BBC live updates page https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54098675

 

[quimcunx]

At last. It was madness to make it voluntary. Either you want to track every person in contact with a carrier or you don't. If you don't then you are likely to get uncontrolled community transmission.

I was listening to something last night that played a clip of Hancock replying to a labour back bencher that tracing targets are met 'tracing 84.3% of contacts were reached and asked to self-isolate where contact details were provided' The true figure is 69% according to the bod on the podcast and actually they only manage to contact 80% of the positive cases so they're reaching 70% of 80% of the people they need to be able to contact. And then they all need to actually self-isolate.

 

[Roadkill]

And they should have adequate backup from "the authorities" to ensure that they are able to enforce. I can well understand the dilemma of some shop assistant faced with a refusenik non-mask-wearer - do they risk a violent confrontation, or just serve the twat and get them out of the shop?

Yes, it's not a position to put small shops in. The larger ones with security staff should be setting an example. So far as I can see it'd give the security guard at my local Sainsbury's something to do.

 

[Looby]

I got on a bus a couple of weeks ago and completely forgot to put my mask on. I was flustered as I had my puppy with me but had my mask in my pocket ready. I wouldn’t have minded a gentle reminder at all and there were no signs on the bus at all. Probably one on the door that I didn’t notice as I was sorting him out and paying.

 

[Roadkill]

Meanwhile, the Daily Star has done a politics again:

 

[LDC]

I dont think this is much of a change, he was just the same with Brexit and I assume he has form for that sort of thing during his days as mayor. Now those water cannons will never be used to water garden bridge.

He is said to be fascinated by Trump though, which probably just means being fascinated by Trumps ability to push things even further, dazzled by Trumps 'successes' in running roughshod over conventions and norms, and keen to take their own propaganda in a similar direction, albeit with dog-whistled tuned to a certain narrow UK audience.

Meanwhile:



from 11:22 of BBC live updates page https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54098675

Months ago when Johnson was ill with the virus I was one of the bleeding heart softies not overjoyed about it, thinking about the possible impact on the country if he died and how he might have infected other people, etc. Now I just want them all to get it, be intubated by a half blind and drunk anaesthetist, and then slowly fade away.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Stickers on the back of bus seats just now:

 

[Roadkill]

Months ago when Johnson was ill with the virus I was one of the bleeding heart softies not overjoyed about it, thinking about the possible impact on the country if he died and how he might have infected other people, etc. Now I just want them all to get it, be intubated by a half blind and drunk anaesthetist, and then slowly fade away.

Personally I hope there was an asymptomatic case with a very high viral load at that 1922 Committee meeting last week.

 

[Wilf]

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

Dead Kennedys

 

[elbows]

I was listening to something last night that played a clip of Hancock replying to a labour back bencher that tracing targets are met 'tracing 84.3% of contacts were reached and asked to self-isolate where contact details were provided' The true figure is 69% according to the bod on the podcast and actually they only manage to contact 80% of the positive cases so they're reaching 70% of 80% of the people they need to be able to contact. And then they all need to actually self-isolate.

I like the comparison between contacts reached via the centralised system and those reached locally, this quote from the BBC live updates page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54098675

For cases handled by local health protection teams, 96.6% of contacts were reached and asked to self-isolate in the week to 2 September. For cases handled online or in call centres, the figure was 61.3%.

 

[Brainaddict]

I like the comparison between contacts reached via the centralised system and those reached locally, this quote from the BBC live updates page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54098675

When the government outsourced test and trace to a bunch of numpty friends of theirs whose only interest is free money from the government, it was another sign that they literally do not care whether you live or die or get health problems that compromise your quality of life for years. I wonder when people will get the message.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Sturgeon has just announced new rules in Scotland, a maximum of 6 can meet from 2 households only, children under 12 don't count towards that number.

Rules to apply to inside & outside settings.

 

[teuchter]

Here in Morecambe Bay area everyone is wearing a mask in supermarkets too. What are the potential reasons for Londoners not doing so?

Looking at it the other way round - why did people in rural scotland seem to be behaving differently in the supermarket (it wasn't just mask wearing - there seemed to be a visible nervousness about coming anywhere near others, with quite a few people)?

In London we had a large number of cases (and deaths) early on. I think there's been a bit of a perception that it's "already happened". Also, for a lot of people they will have seen reports of a serious outbreak in London yet not seen anyone close to them affected. The population of London is relatively young. And, in a densely populated area, as soon as you step out your front door, there are other people around. Being around strangers is normal, and being around strangers who might for all you know be infected, becomes normalised.

In contrast in a rural area, lots of people will live in relatively isolated houses with gardens. Easy to do stuff and go outside without having to come anywhere near anyone else. They'll drive to the supermarket in their own car. The population is older. It might be that the supermarket is one of the few places it's necessary to come close to anyone you don't know. Being around unknown humans in a pandemic situation doesn't have the same opportunity to feel "normal".

Finally, in some parts of the UK (including the north of scotland) there just hasn't really been an outbreak of any significance (save for a few care homes). I think if you live in one of those places, it's easy for it to become something a bit frightening that's happening in other places. That's not that it's not frightening somewhere like London - it's more that you know it's going on but you also see that various aspects of life just carry on as normal(ish). And in addition, in places that haven't had an outbreak but in the past few weeks have suddenly started seeing tourists appearing again - which definitely makes people anxious.

Those are my explanations for why people may seem more nervous in some places. As for why a significant number of people in London decide not to bother with masks at all... I guess there are a whole load of things contributing to that, some of which are a bit uncomfortable to discuss.

 

[Cloo]

Shit, sorry you end up doing that.

See I don't think people doing that are antisemities or anything, and it kind of bothers me when people barrel in with that argument - it's almost always sheer thoughtlessness about the fact that these comments will be seen by people from families affected by actual, real Nazis

 

[Cloo]

Sturgeon has just announced new rules in Scotland, a maximum of 6 can meet from 2 households only, children under 12 don't count towards that number.

Rules to apply to inside & outside settings.

Now that makes some more actual sense and is pretty clear.

 

[maomao]

Looking at it the other way round - why did people in rural scotland seem to be behaving differently in the supermarket (it wasn't just mask wearing - there seemed to be a visible nervousness about coming anywhere near others, with quite a few people)?

In London we had a large number of cases (and deaths) early on. I think there's been a bit of a perception that it's "already happened". Also, for a lot of people they will have seen reports of a serious outbreak in London yet not seen anyone close to them affected. The population of London is relatively young. And, in a densely populated area, as soon as you step out your front door, there are other people around. Being around strangers is normal, and being around strangers who might for all you know be infected, becomes normalised.

In contrast in a rural area, lots of people will live in relatively isolated houses with gardens. Easy to do stuff and go outside without having to come anywhere near anyone else. They'll drive to the supermarket in their own car. The population is older. It might be that the supermarket is one of the few places it's necessary to come close to anyone you don't know. Being around unknown humans in a pandemic situation doesn't have the same opportunity to feel "normal".

Finally, in some parts of the UK (including the north of scotland) there just hasn't really been an outbreak of any significance (save for a few care homes). I think if you live in one of those places, it's easy for it to become something a bit frightening that's happening in other places. That's not that it's not frightening somewhere like London - it's more that you know it's going on but you also see that various aspects of life just carry on as normal(ish). And in addition, in places that haven't had an outbreak but in the past few weeks have suddenly started seeing tourists appearing again - which definitely makes people anxious.

Those are my explanations for why people may seem more nervous in some places. As for why a significant number of people in London decide not to bother with masks at all... I guess there are a whole load of things contributing to that, some of which are a bit uncomfortable to discuss.

Hmmm. I live in a part of London where mask wearing and following the rules has been pretty good (though we have an older than average population too) and relatives in Edinburgh report high levels of observance so it's not just rural Scotland.

My mother fell over in the street (in Edinburgh, and she's fine) the other day and shouted at a young woman who tried to help her to stay away which struck me as a bit over the top when she told me.

 

[LDC]

Now that makes some more actual sense and is pretty clear.

Yeah, the under 12s not counting is a good approach.

 

[magneze]

Here in Morecambe Bay area everyone is wearing a mask in supermarkets too. What are the potential reasons for Londoners not doing so?

Most people are around here but there always seems to be one without every time I go to the shop.

 

[magneze]

Sturgeon has just announced new rules in Scotland, a maximum of 6 can meet from 2 households only, children under 12 don't count towards that number.

Rules to apply to inside & outside settings.

What about workplaces?

 

[LDC]

What about workplaces?

Imagine same as England, those rules don't apply in workplaces, just the 'Covid safe' guidelines.

 

[Orang Utan]

fwiw, the mask refuseniks I've encountered have all been over 50s

 

[weepiper]

Imagine same as England, those rules don't apply in workplaces, just the 'Covid safe' guidelines.

Except that we've also now made masks mandatory for hospitality staff and also for customers unless they're eating or drinking.

 

[Cloo]

Most people are around here but there always seems to be one without every time I go to the shop.

They're pretty good round here in N London but still too many people not covering their sodding noses!!!

In terms of keeping social distance, not great, but honestly not many people are going to be able to manage that in an enclosed space.

 

[MrSki]

Surely this can't be right. Does Serco figures include all testing?

 

[Numbers]

It’s appalling where I am in East London. Was in Morrison’s the other day and at least 50% of people weren’t wearing a mask and some of those who were weren’t doing so correctly, and as for the local shops, maybe 1 or 2 in 10 people wear one and hardly any of the workers.

 

[prunus]

It would help even for them to be just the teensiest bit transparent and say 'We are trying to cut down on non-essential contact so that essential things like education and at least some economic activity can continue', because that does actually make some sense, like it or not. I know people are all 'Yeah, so we can only meet up where we spend money', but that's not a totally mercenary thing for the government to allow. Just the way it goes about everything is so sweatily dishonest and incompetent.

Exactly this. It absolutely infuriates me that although what they’re doing does in fact make sense they manage through utter utter incompetence to present it in a way that makes it seem like it doesn’t in fact make any sense! It’s fucking ridiculous.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Surely this can't be right. Does Serco figures include all testing?

I doubt it, IIRC NHS, PHE (and similiar in the other 3 nations) & the army are all carrying out tests, and I think other private operators could also be involved.