Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Raheem]

I agree they're prioritizing the economy, but people saying 6 is an 'awkward number' and why couldn't it be 8 or 16 is ridiculous. If it was 8 or 16 it feels like they'd be moaning it wasn't 10 or 18.

Given how the next six or so months are looking like going the least of our worries is this number 6 tbh.

Maybe the rule should be "not too many".

 

[PursuedByBears]

I've just been in the north of Scotland for a week or so. It's very noticeable how differently people are behaving in certain contexts, compared to London or at least the part where I live. Up there absolutely everyone in the supermarket was wearing a mask, largely following the one way system and edging around each other slightly nervously in the aisles. In south london you are lucky if half the people have a mask on and there's pretty minimal performance of distancing. There are lots of potential reasons for this difference but it was pretty stark to see it.

Track and trace taking of details seemed to be being taken rather more seriously too.

Here in Morecambe Bay area everyone is wearing a mask in supermarkets too. What are the potential reasons for Londoners not doing so?

 

[Brainaddict]

That's because it was mandatory in Scotland, but for some reason not in England.

Although that is changing from next Friday, 18th.

Venues required by law to record contact details

Premises and venues across England must have a system in place to record contact details of their customers, visitors and staff in the latest move to break the chains of transmission of coronavirus.

www.gov.uk

At last. It was madness to make it voluntary. Either you want to track every person in contact with a carrier or you don't. If you don't then you are likely to get uncontrolled community transmission.

 

[LDC]

Maybe the rule should be "not too many".

"Not one more than you'd like."

 

[Roadkill]

I agree they're prioritizing the economy, but people saying 6 is an 'awkward number' and why couldn't it be 8 or 16 is ridiculous. If it was 8 or 16 it feels like they'd be moaning it wasn't 10 or 18.

Given how the next six or so months are looking like going the least of our worries is this number 6 tbh.

This is true. Perhaps the other thing some people are missing is that they're not expecting 100% compliance with this, as with other Covid measures. It's like the rules on face masks. In an ideal world everyone would have to wear a medical-grade mask in any public space, but that's just not going to happen and trying to make it so would probably be counterproductive, and since any face covering is a lot better than none the rules are framed so as to allow people to cover up with pretty much what they like.* Similarly, they're well aware that groups of more than six are going to continue meeting, but probably a lot less and not so much in public places, which will help to drive down transmission. There's a sensible degree of flexibility built into quite a few of the restrictions IMO.

*That's not to say the rules on masks are being enforced adequately: they just aren't. Shops and public transport providers, especially, should be much more aggressive about refusing service to people who won't mask up.

 

[LDC]

This is true. Perhaps the other thing some people are missing is that they're not expecting 100% compliance with this, as with other Covid measures. It's like the rules on face masks. In an ideal world everyone would have to wear a medical-grade mask in any public space, but that's just not going to happen and trying to make it so would probably be counterproductive, and since any face covering is a lot better than none the rules are framed so as to allow people to cover up with pretty much what they like.* Similarly, they're well aware that groups of more than six are going to continue meeting, but probably a lot less and not so much in public places, which will help to drive down transmission. There's a sensible degree of flexibility built into quite a few of the restrictions IMO.

*That's not to say the rules on masks are being enforced adequately: they just aren't. Shops and public transport providers, especially, should be much more aggressive about refusing service to people who won't mask up.

Yeah, iirc the original modelling used calculations that had a 60% compliance for it to work.

 

[klang]

It's also a number people should already be familiar with. It's 6 people to a restaurant table isn't it? and there was a 6 people meeting up outside restriction at some point iirc.

with the new 6 added I make it 666

 

[LDC]

"Operation Moonshot." I am actually asleep? Is this some fevered nightmare?

 

[LDC]

Covid marshals is going to send the conspiracy theorists into some kind of bonkers tailspin isn't it? How long before someone calls them the Gestapo?

 

[zora]

Absolutely: At bloody last. I really don't get why facemasks in shops and contact details in pubs/restaurants weren't mandatory off the bat.
Shops reopen, but with mandatory masks.
Pubs reopen, everyone must give contact details.
Would have seemed so much easier and clearer and I think people would have been very accepting of it. Rather than this half-arsed "it's just a recommendation, oh no, now it's maybe a legal requirement after all from in two weeks' time, but actually noone really knows..."

 

[Cloo]

Rules aren't neutral and they're not just following science. They've prioritised business over family and people are entitled to have an opinion that.

It would help even for them to be just the teensiest bit transparent and say 'We are trying to cut down on non-essential contact so that essential things like education and at least some economic activity can continue', because that does actually make some sense, like it or not. I know people are all 'Yeah, so we can only meet up where we spend money', but that's not a totally mercenary thing for the government to allow. Just the way it goes about everything is so sweatily dishonest and incompetent.

 

[Cloo]

Covid marshals is going to send the conspiracy theorists into some kind of bonkers tailspin isn't it? How long before someone calls them the Gestapo?

* prepares for another round of having to explain to people on social media whiy Nazi comparisons are really distasteful and unpleasant *

 

[Yossarian]

Operation Moneyshot - Johnson spaffing up a wall yet again.

Operation Mugshot - Johnson and senior members of his administration arrested for criminal mishandling of the pandemic.

Operation Neckshot - the sentences are carried out.

 

[frogwoman]

The communication on this has been catastrophic. As it has through much of the pandemic

 

[LDC]

* prepares for another round of having to explain to people on social media whiy Nazi comparisons are really distasteful and unpleasant *

Shit, sorry you end up doing that.

 

[LDC]

The communication on this has been catastrophic. As it has through much of the pandemic

I just ended up cringing watching the briefing yesterday when Johnson talked. Blustering confidence, quips in French, and overlong rambling answers only take you so far.

 

[emanymton]

Rules aren't neutral and they're not just following science. They've prioritised business over family and people are entitled to have an opinion that.

I agree, but for every rule change there is a chorus saying it doesn't make sense or is too confusing. When often the basic rule and message is pretty clear. Don't meet in groups of more than 6 is pretty clear. Of course there has to be exceptions real life doesn't work that neatly and of course the dividing line can seem arbitrary, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. And usually they is a pretty logical reason behind most of the rules if you give it some thought.

I may disagree with what exceptions are given and where lines are drawn but the rules normally are fairly clear and do make sense from a certain perspective, even if you or I might disagree with the reasoning and conclusion behind it.

And surely in this case if we wanted to protect people more than the economy the number should be lower but everyone is moaning it is too low.

And how about instead of people looking to push the boundaries and find exceptions they instead apply the rule of thumb that if in doubt best assume the rule applies rather than it does not.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I wonder how the tendering process is going to work.

Tendering process, good one.

 

[Roadkill]

I just ended up cringing watching the briefing yesterday when Johnson talked. Blustering confidence, quips in French, and overlong rambling answers only take you so far.

In his case bluster and bullshit have taken him all the way to No.10.

 

[emanymton]

This is true. Perhaps the other thing some people are missing is that they're not expecting 100% compliance with this, as with other Covid measures. It's like the rules on face masks. In an ideal world everyone would have to wear a medical-grade mask in any public space, but that's just not going to happen and trying to make it so would probably be counterproductive, and since any face covering is a lot better than none the rules are framed so as to allow people to cover up with pretty much what they like.* Similarly, they're well aware that groups of more than six are going to continue meeting, but probably a lot less and not so much in public places, which will help to drive down transmission. There's a sensible degree of flexibility built into quite a few of the restrictions IMO.

*That's not to say the rules on masks are being enforced adequately: they just aren't. Shops and public transport providers, especially, should be much more aggressive about refusing service to people who won't mask up.

And absolutely this no one can expect 100 compliance just that most people will follow the rules most of the time and that the rules changes will influence peoples own risk assessments.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Here in Morecambe Bay area everyone is wearing a mask in supermarkets too. What are the potential reasons for Londoners not doing so?

It must vary area by area in London. Everyone around me is wearing masks in shops and on public transport. The one or two who aren't are vastly outnumbered by those who are.

 

[klang]

It must vary area by area in London. Everyone around me is wearing masks in shops and on public transport. The one or two who aren't are vastly outnumbered by those who are.

round here a few people in Sainsbury's and Tescos wear masks. Nobody bothers in any of the other shops.

 

[elbows]

I just ended up cringing watching the briefing yesterday when Johnson talked. Blustering confidence, quips in French, and overlong rambling answers only take you so far.

Did you see the bit at the very end in response to the last question, where Whitty ended up slightly pissing on Johnsons chips and Johnsons said 'thanks very much for that important dose of realism and common sense, but we remain extremely ambitious....'

 

[Raheem]

round here a few people in Sainsbury's and Tescos wear masks. Nobody bothers in any of the other shops.

In the old days, it used to be that people would be more mindful of their behaviour in church.

 

[Sue]

round here a few people in Sainsbury's and Tescos wear masks. Nobody bothers in any of the other shops.

This. I was going to pop into my local shop yesterday but looked in and nobody was wearing a mask. Decided to try another shop instead and it was exactly the same.

 

[Roadkill]

round here a few people in Sainsbury's and Tescos wear masks. Nobody bothers in any of the other shops.

It's pretty good round here, at least in the places I frequent. Most people seem to be masking up, which makes the few who don't more conspicuous.

I actually used a bus yesterday, for the first time since March. I was the only passenger - at least on the lower deck - for most of the way, and then some stupid woman got on with a mask round her chin and sat right behind me. I did consider turning round and telling her to put her mask on and move to the other side of the bus, but I wasn't in the mood for a confrontation and it was nearly my stop anyway, so I contented myself with just getting off and giving her a dirty look. IMV the bus driver should have told her to put her mask on or she'd have to walk.

 

[LDC]

Did you see the bit at the very end in response to the last question, where Whitty ended up slightly pissing on Johnsons chips and Johnsons said 'thanks very much for that important dose of realism and common sense, but we remain extremely ambitious....'

Yeah. I can just imagine in meetings he's constantly coming up with stuff they just have to knock back with facts. He's a bit mutating into Trump before our eyes I think. He's one of those people that under pressure just keeps talking and coming up with ever more bonkers ideas rather than shutting up and listening and thinking. And who can blame him, look where it's got him so far...

 

[2hats]

I've just been in the north of Scotland for a week or so. It's very noticeable how differently people are behaving in certain contexts, compared to London or at least the part where I live. Up there absolutely everyone in the supermarket was wearing a mask, largely following the one way system and edging around each other slightly nervously in the aisles.

[...]

Track and trace taking of details seemed to be being taken rather more seriously too.

Similarly in Italy. Facemasks mandatory not just indoors but outdoors in many places. Details recorded at restaurants, etc for tracing purposes. Foreheads frequently being scanned with IR thermometer guns. Quite a contrast with the charade in the UK where I find that a large local supermarket appears to have given up with any notion of social distancing.

 

[clicker]

It must vary area by area in London. Everyone around me is wearing masks in shops and on public transport. The one or two who aren't are vastly outnumbered by those who are.

Yes and imo it's those one or two who then spend the entire journey telling Alan to get dog food from aldi, at the top of their voice. I'm at the judgey stage. .

 

[emanymton]

It's pretty good round here, at least in the places I frequent. Most people seem to be masking up, which makes the few who don't more conspicuous.

I actually used a bus yesterday, for the first time since March. I was the only passenger - at least on the lower deck - for most of the way, and then some stupid woman got on with a mask round her chin and sat right behind me. I did consider turning round and telling her to put her mask on and move to the other side of the bus, but I wasn't in the mood for a confrontation and it was nearly my stop anyway, so I contented myself with just getting off and giving her a dirty look. IMV the bus driver should have told her to put her mask on or she'd have to walk.

On some of the buses I use i have counted up to half the people with a mask covering their mouth but not their nose. For some reason that annoys me more than the people not wearing one at all.