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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Im a bit confused today though looking at all the people in the pubs....don't think I seen any masks. That doesn't make sense to me. If it's (going to be) mandatory here to wear masks in shops for presumably good reason, why are they not mandatory in pubs.
Unfortunately there isn't a good answer to that apart from "the regulations are confused and messed up". We know from the science that masks seem to help reduce transmission when people are in close quarters for a while - they don't completely stop it but they are better than nothing if you can't help being in that situation, as long as everyone or at least most people are wearing them. So yeah they should be worn in pubs if they're worn in shops, and they should be worn in shops. It makes it hard to drink but you can always pull your mask down ffs. (Restaurants, bit more difficult.)
 
Cold War Steve's take on our Descent into Wetherspoons...

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Well, for one, I'm going nowhere near the pubs for a good while yet.

I somehow suspect that most pubs won't look exactly like in there :p :D

Here, we're both going to be pretty cautious after Monday 13th (Wales' prospective re-opening date, for the outsides of some pubs) and we'll be very careful which ones whose gardens we go to.

I can also foresee delays, and carefully checking how it's going, before we decide to give it a go.

But we'll be back (albeit cautiously!) when we know more about which ones seem quietest/safest and at what times :)
 
Advice, come on...the government advises us to eat five fecking bits of fruit and veg a day, do we all do that, no! Me personally, i need clear cut instructions. But that is happening soon, it's becoming mandatory.

Im a bit confused today though looking at all the people in the pubs....don't think I seen any masks. That doesn't make sense to me. If it's (going to be) mandatory here to wear masks in shops for presumably good reason, why are they not mandatory in pubs.
Pubs in Scotland are still closed, aren't they? So you are not seeing people in pubs local to you in Glasgow with or without masks. They will open on Monday, but only for beer garden/pavement café places.
When can pubs and restaurants reopen?
Outdoor hospitality, such as pavement cafes and beer gardens, will re-open from Monday 6 July where 2 metre distancing will remain in place for now.
Coronavirus (COVID-19): Scotland's route map - what you can and cannot do - gov.scot
 
I've stuck to all the other rules. Ive not seen my gran for over 3 months. Most people i know ive not seen in person for months. Ive not been in another house or had anybody in my house. I wash my hands frequently. I keep my distance from people on the odd occasion I am out. I got furloughed but got another job and I work from home. I run on the road to avoid people. Ive not driven out of Glasgow. I don't wear a mask because I've not been told to.

(bolding mine) In the interests of fairness, you're a tiny bit more compliant than I am, then. :( I have been spending time at my Dad's house throughout lockdown but I tell myself that was OK under the "provide care or help to vulnerable person" exemption, then whenever I have had to go outdoors and engage with doctor, taxi driver, whatever, I go to my own flat and stay there without seeing anyone for at least 7 days. It's all legit now, though, 'cos we can be a bubble. :D

I think everyone agrees that masks are a bit of a pain, particularly if you wear glasses, but this damn virus is a more urgent threat than not eating enough vegetables.
 
Unfortunately there isn't a good answer to that apart from "the regulations are confused and messed up". We know from the science that masks seem to help reduce transmission when people are in close quarters for a while - they don't completely stop it but they are better than nothing if you can't help being in that situation, as long as everyone or at least most people are wearing them. So yeah they should be worn in pubs if they're worn in shops, and they should be worn in shops. It makes it hard to drink but you can always pull your mask down ffs. (Restaurants, bit more difficult.)
I think BigDaftie might be slightly confused here. Pics and videos of pubs that opened today in England in which people are not wearing masks have really no connection with the fact that it will soon be compulsory to wear face covering in shops in Scotland.
 
I listened to an ENT consultant on the Guardian talk about how the loss of smell was the virus invading the brain.So its not a surprise it could cause neurological issues.

I can confirm the loss of smell is broken with c-19. I've lost it due to a cold in the past but this time it wasn't total in that you couldn't taste things, I could deal with no taste, it was worse, it was broken. Everything tasted hideous.

d-19dd

Oh, not good. :( I wonder whether this might mean that there could be people who did have this virus and survived, but with neurological abnormalities that remain for years. We often hear about our elderly people with dementia time bomb, but what if younger people, say under 40, are infected by this Covid-19, recover well, but there is neurological damage that might remain?
 
Oh, not good. :( I wonder whether this might mean that there could be people who did have this virus and survived, but with neurological abnormalities that remain for years. We often hear about our elderly people with dementia time bomb, but what if younger people, say under 40, are infected by this Covid-19, recover well, but there is neurological damage that might remain?

There’s lots of talk of people experiencing ‘brain fog’, loss of concentration or personality change. This isn’t just about people who have been hospitalised. It‘s also affecting people in the middle ground between very mild symptoms and hospitalisation. It isn’t clear how long the effects will last or whether some will be permanent.
 
They are talking about tracking covid-19 through monitoring the amount of virus in sewage.

Apparently a simple early warning system which does not require mass testing.

Regarding the sewage surveillance which you mentioned and I'm often to be found going on about, here is the BBC story from a few days ago. As I keep saying, I'd be much happier about this phase if this system was already up and running, since I do not think the authorities currently have the best view of the situation at the level of detail/locality that is required, and they could end up missing or misleading themselves using people testing positive numbers alone. At the moment they can somewhat compensate for that using hospital data, but that does have lag.

 
This is like when Trump mangles his words, so everyone ignores the content, goes on about his diction not his dickishness.
Indeed it is. Do you think Boris Johnson is now using that ploy deliberately, given that it works for Trump? Johnson has always played the jolly buffoon, so not too much of a surprise if he is copying Trump in this.
 
Regarding the sewage surveillance which you mentioned and I'm often to be found going on about, here is the BBC story from a few days ago. As I keep saying, I'd be much happier about this phase if this system was already up and running, since I do not think the authorities currently have the best view of the situation at the level of detail/locality that is required, and they could end up missing or misleading themselves using people testing positive numbers alone.

elbows - this maybe of interest, someone on twitter using 111 call data as an indicator. If you look back at his feed you can see where he’s getting it from.

 
Blatant cronyism (thread):


I've spent a few minutes poking around Aventis Solutions Ltd, the small private employment agency based in Manchester/Wilmslow in Cheshire which on 12 May this year was awarded an £18.4million contract to supply emergency PPE. They appear to have nothing to do with Aventis Pharma Ltd which is an established supplier to HMG.

They started in 2011 when three directors were appointed, all recruitment consultants. One resigned in 2015 leaving two, the major shareholder being James Michael FARRELL who was also a director of a hairdressers until he resigned last week, but has no other businesses listed. The other, Andrew SPENCE-EVANS also has no other businesses listed. On 10th June this year 4 new directors were appointed. Two are named SPENCE-EVANS, one shares an address with Andy. One of the others, Robbie PETERS, shares an address with the hairdresser. All of the 4 describe their occupation as 'Company Director' but none of them lists any other previous or current directorships, although strangely the secretary/director of the hairdressers is someone called Robbie Lee PETERS. Looking a bit further, the hairdressers seems ordinary enough, although co-incidentally it moved its registered address last week as well, from Piccadilly House Wax for Men Manchester to Wilmslow. Before that it was at Fake It Bishops Corner 321 Stretford Road Manchester but that's apparently just a beauty salon.

All unremarkable except that a service company with net assets of £300 this time last year was given a contract for 18 million quids worth of stuff without anyone else tendering, and suddenly seems to have sprung into a new life.

Funny old world.
 
elbows - this maybe of interest, someone on twitter using 111 call data as an indicator. If you look back at his feed you can see where he’s getting it from.



Thanks. Ahh Nuneaton, my town, again. The local council also announced that they could tell us which area here was the worst affected, having received such data themselves, and it turns out that its my ward that has the most cases. Which makes me glad I've only set foot outside my door about twice during the entire lockdown/post-lockdown period.
 
In recent days the pillar 2 test numbers down to the local area have finally been included in the data we can see on the official dashboards. I will start to look at this more thoroughly over the next week.

Also I forget whether we've had this before (I know we had a FT version of the same), but this chart from a PHE report into the Leicester situation is a great example of why the lack of pillar 2 data previously made the trends seen utterly misleading.

Screenshot 2020-07-05 at 13.15.21.png

From COVID-19: exceedances in Leicester
 
The fuckin cunts were never worried about the exploitative shite before this pandemic. Even Ashworth, as it’s his constituency!
Sweatshops are basically the Tory dream. He's pretending to be 'worried' when in fact it's been open knowledge that factories in Leicester have been paying under minimum wage and breaking employment laws left, right and centre for years. The only thing he's worried about is Boohoo's share price (down 3% after a 'good' lockdown).
 
Sweatshops are basically the Tory dream. He's pretending to be 'worried' when in fact it's been open knowledge that factories in Leicester have been paying under minimum wage and breaking employment laws left, right and centre for years. The only thing he's worried about is Boohoo's share price (down 3% after a 'good' lockdown).
Free market, innit? You don't want to go interfering with a nice, free, self-regulating (so long as the mechanism of regulation is solely measured in currency terms) employment market by doing something silly like regulating it externally. Or enforcing regulations that you can't get rid of, but which get in the way of rich people becoming richer. That'd never do.
 
Did anyone's streets burst into applause at 5pm then? Cause back in April we had screaming children banging pots and pans, fireworks, the lot. Plenty of NHS workers in my street too. Not a peep today. I've been sat in the front room all afternoon and didn't hear a thing. BBC are reporting it as having happened everywhere though.
Forgot about this. Not heard a peep, altho’ out the back we’ve heard the pots banging from here previously, nothing tho’.
 
Did anyone's streets burst into applause at 5pm then? Cause back in April we had screaming children banging pots and pans, fireworks, the lot. Plenty of NHS workers in my street too. Not a peep today. I've been sat in the front room all afternoon and didn't hear a thing. BBC are reporting it as having happened everywhere though.

I went out to see what was happening, but clearly the idea hadn't been noticed around here, as no one was out, before at least 80% of the neighbours came out.
 
I went out today for the fourth time in the past few months (Bethnal Green), and tried wearing a proper mask for the first time - wore a bandana the other times. It was surprisingly difficult, to the extent that I don't think I could do it again. It's an N95 mask and was comfortable enough, but it made my breathing significantly more difficult. OK so I do have breathing problems, and cough pretty much all the time when I walk around, which is one of the reasons to wear a mask because it increases the chances of me passing on covid even when I'm asymptomatic, but it was such a marked difference in breathing that I think anyone would have found it hard. And it steamed my glasses up enough that my vision was badly obscured - had to pull it down in the supermarket in order to see what I was buying.

It's probably just a shit mask, although it was certainly sold as a proper one (wasn't me that bought it), but it made me understand people's dislike of masks a lot more. Surgeons wear masks for hours in warm environments but their disposable masks are way thinner than this one is. If other people got ones like mine then they will definitely be put off wearing them.

If I have to take public transport I'll go back to the bandana I was wearing before, or maybe get some disposable masks if I end up travelling more often than I usually do. Having any sort of barrier does still provide some protection to those around me without meaning I can't breathe well enough to walk around.

The only four people I saw wearing masks - I was out for a couple of hours and it was really busy - were two east Asian students wearing them on the street, which happens round here sometimes anyway, and two supermarket workers. Nobody in the park was wearing them, but I don't think that matters. Nobody else in the supermarket was wearing a mask, customers or staff, even those working on the shop floor - I felt like a weirdo. One of the supermarket workers without a mask on actually pushed past my friend to get by, even though he could just have asked him to move out of the way (he had no idea he was in the way). Unexpected rudeness and definitely breaching social distancing - maybe they'd had some arsey customers in earlier or something. None of the customers made any effort at social distancing and there was no one-way system or any attempt at limiting customers.

Not what I was expecting, TBH.

(bolding mine) In the interests of fairness, you're a tiny bit more compliant than I am, then. :( I have been spending time at my Dad's house throughout lockdown but I tell myself that was OK under the "provide care or help to vulnerable person" exemption, then whenever I have had to go outdoors and engage with doctor, taxi driver, whatever, I go to my own flat and stay there without seeing anyone for at least 7 days. It's all legit now, though, 'cos we can be a bubble. :D

I think everyone agrees that masks are a bit of a pain, particularly if you wear glasses, but this damn virus is a more urgent threat than not eating enough vegetables.

That is complying, though, because you were supplying help to a vulnerable person. And if it's just one person then you're not really spreading much around anyway.

Did anyone's streets burst into applause at 5pm then? Cause back in April we had screaming children banging pots and pans, fireworks, the lot. Plenty of NHS workers in my street too. Not a peep today. I've been sat in the front room all afternoon and didn't hear a thing. BBC are reporting it as having happened everywhere though.

Some on our street came out - I leaned out of my window and clapped - but not as many as the Thursday claps, which was practically every house on the street. But then it wasn't well publicised and I suspect that at 5pm on a sunny Saturday a lot of people weren't at home. And NHS workers only really care about the clap when it's something that comes up in a STD clinic.
 
The official UK dashboard which I normally mention when I am about to rant about it, is in danger of becoming useful.

The hospital data is now available by region as well as nation, and the combined pillar 1 & 2 positive test numbers are available down to the lower tier level, with graphs. So if I want to see a quick graph of cases in Leicester, or Nuneaton & Bedworth, or wherever, now I can.

I dont know how well the links straight to a particular location & dataset work so I will try this now, this link should be healthcare data including admissions and people in mechanical ventilator beds in London.


edit - yes I think it works. The magic happens in the 'change location' button at the top right. Different sorts of locations are listed depending on what data page you are on, eg locations under the cases section are quite different in granularity compared to those under hospital data which are NHS region based.
 
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