Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Buddy Bradley]

And so long as it doesn't overwhelm the NHS then we'll have followed the 5 guidelines.

Exactly this. Everyone seems to be thinking that "relaxing lockdown" = "it's now safer to be around other people", when in fact it just means "when people inevitably get sick and die, we're not worried any more about having enough hospital beds to put them in".

 

[elbows]

Have the news completely given up on reporting death numbers now? No mention of it at all on the BBC News. Or do they just not want to shine a light on how the government have won 1st prize in the "how many of your people can you kill through you own incompetence" competition?

Number-based stories have been major headline news items in recent days. Some numbers reaching nearly 30,000, then going past 30,000, and being the first in Europe to reach that toll, and numbers relating to care home deaths have all been major stories this week.

Since the media are often milestone and comparison based, I would expect a bit of a lull with those sorts of stories in the wake of those stories earlier this week, but I dont think it will last. But even when there is no lull, its usually later in the day that such stories emerge because 2pm and a little after 5pm are the sort of times the data comes out every day.

 

[elbows]

Although so far today there is already one such story, because new ONS analysis on Covid-19 deaths and ethnic background is big news.

The 12:44 entry on the BBC live page for example https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52568948

 

[Dogsauce]

Feels like all the talk in the media this morning is the economy and suffering businesses, and encouraging things back to normal for the sake of them asap.

This BBC article (presumably on behalf of the government as usual) seems to be pivoting us back towards the ‘herd immunity’ strategy again. All out of facepalms.

Coronavirus: Is it time to free the healthy from restrictions? Is it time to free the healthy from restrictions?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52543692

 

[bimble]

If I remember right, bimble lives in a house on a National Trust site, so may be informed about this before it's made public.

Apologies if I've got it wrong, and will happily delete this post if required, so please don't quote me.

It’s true I do but I have not got any inside knowledge that was just a guess based on the rumoured encouragement of picnics & rambling.

 

[CNT36]

There is contention over ace 2 inhibitors ...
The European cardiologists reckon there's research that shows that ace inhibitors can actually be protective ...

In his latest updates he has been talking a lot about Ace inhibitors, ARBs, oxidative stress and the role of Endothelial cells. I've done a little reading about it and still getting my head around the mechanism involved but it appears that although ACE inhibitors increase the amount of ACE 2 available it does not seem to be increasing the chance of developing Covid-19. Sars-cov 2 does bind to ACE 2 but there are other factors in play. A lot of deaths are due to cardiovascular rather than respiratory issues and it is through their role in this cardiovascular mechanism that ACE inhibitors are making a difference. The virus binds to ACE 2 reducing the amount available to bond to angiotensin 2 receptors. Angiotensin 2 is a vasoconstrictor and if it is able to bond to its receptor can increase blood pressure. This along with damage to the endothelium can increase the likelihood of thrombosis. Angiotensin 2 also increases oxidative stress through its interaction with enzymes that play a role in producing reactive oxygen species that damage the endothelium and release coagulation factors. This is all affected by preexisting conditions. Ace inhibitors help to prevent this. By reducing the amount of ACE available to convert the less potent vasoconstrictor angiotensin 1 into the more potent angiotensin 2 it keeps blood pressure lower and stops the reactive oxygen species from damaging the endothelium. ARBs block angiotensin 2 receptors and ACE2 is able to convert more angiotensin 2 into Angiotensin 1 7 helping to lower blood pressure. This mechanism of the virus and its associated risk factors appears to be quite important in hospital admissions and there is some evidence that cardiovascular conditions such as hypertension are playing more of a role in admissions than respiratory conditions such as asthma.

 

[bimble]

Where did you get this from? It seems really really unlikely.

Nowhere just wild speculation sorry. Nt will be eager though as are losing loads of money

 

[phillm]

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Number-based stories have been major headline news items in recent days. Some numbers reaching nearly 30,000, then going past 30,000, and being the first in Europe to reach that toll, and numbers relating to care home deaths have all been major stories this week.

I only tend to watch BBC Breakfast news, and there was nothing on there today. Anecdote!=data, though.

 

[Teaboy]

Just spoke to a work colleague who has received a letter from the NHS saying he has been selected at random for covid-19 test. All a bit strange and out of the blue considering there are people out there with symptoms that can't get a test.

Because I'm cynical my initial thought was well that's one way to get the test numbers up, just test a load of randoms by post. Thinking about it though I wonder if its part of a larger study to find out how many people may have it and be asymptomatic? If the study was big enough the results would be interesting.

It all seems legit and not a scam.

 

[2hats]

Just spoke to a work colleague who has received a letter from the NHS saying he has been selected at random for covid-19 test. All a bit strange and out of the blue considering there are people out there with symptoms that can't get a test.

Random sampling is now starting to be conducted to improve modelling and understanding of transmission.

 

[LDC]

Just spoke to a work colleague who has received a letter from the NHS saying he has been selected at random for covid-19 test. All a bit strange and out of the blue considering there are people out there with symptoms that can't get a test.

Because I'm cynical my initial thought was well that's one way to get the test numbers up, just test a load of randoms by post. Thinking about it though I wonder if its part of a larger study to find out how many people may have it and be asymptomatic? If the study was big enough the results would be interesting.

It all seems legit and not a scam.

As 2hats said, sampling is going on. I know someone that also had an email.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

As I recall that was a part of a Gove speech, and never actually turned up in any guidance.

Not even part of a speech iirc. Someone asked him what 'reasonable' was and he came up with something off the top off his head.

 

[teuchter]

Just spoke to a work colleague who has received a letter from the NHS saying he has been selected at random for covid-19 test. All a bit strange and out of the blue considering there are people out there with symptoms that can't get a test.

Because I'm cynical my initial thought was well that's one way to get the test numbers up, just test a load of randoms by post. Thinking about it though I wonder if its part of a larger study to find out how many people may have it and be asymptomatic? If the study was big enough the results would be interesting.

It all seems legit and not a scam.

That's exactly what we urgently need to start doing, as soon as there is testing capacity, isn't it? Health workers first, but mass (ie random) testing is essential to understand where things are at in the population at large.

 

[Teaboy]

That's exactly what we urgently need to start doing, as soon as there is testing capacity, isn't it? Health workers first, but mass (ie random) testing is essential to understand where things are at in the population at large.

Yes. As I say the results will be interesting.

General question not aimed at you. Can anyone who has symptoms now access a test via the post? Is it just the drive-thru places that are regulated?

 

[SpookyFrank]

The pattern here would actually be consistent with the idea that hospitals are now the main source of reinfection. It's worrying - if they can't sort it out, infection levels could remain at a certain level for ages yet. Has anybody in government even admitted that this is a thing that needs sorting out?

Of course not, because that would mean admitting that they'd fucked up.

 

[kabbes]

Where did you get this from? It seems really really unlikely.

They've reopened their car parks near us today. Not publicising it (whoops) but the police have asked them to do it because increasingly people are just parking up on the roads next to the car parks instead.

 

[bimble]

They've reopened their car parks near us today. Not publicising it (whoops) but the police have asked them to do it because increasingly people are just parking up on the roads next to the car parks instead.

Same thing here. I mean the parking outside. The narrow road leading to the closed gate has had cars parked all along it for a couple of weeks now as people will come and see the bluebells.

 

[kabbes]

It's been very tempting to take a bradawl on walks with me for their tyres and some notes saying "DON'T PARK HERE" with superglue to make sure the reason for the tyre-slashing is clear. But, you know, deep breath, peace and harmony.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Just spoke to a work colleague who has received a letter from the NHS saying he has been selected at random for covid-19 test. All a bit strange and out of the blue considering there are people out there with symptoms that can't get a test.

Because I'm cynical my initial thought was well that's one way to get the test numbers up, just test a load of randoms by post. Thinking about it though I wonder if its part of a larger study to find out how many people may have it and be asymptomatic? If the study was big enough the results would be interesting.

It all seems legit and not a scam.

Random testing is vital if we're to get any idea of how many people in the population have been exposed, how many of those exposed develop symptoms, how many people are susceptible to becoming infected by the virus at all and various other big unknowns.

 

[bimble]

It's been very tempting to take a bradawl on walks with me for their tyres and some notes saying "DON'T PARK HERE" with superglue to make sure the reason for the tyre-slashing is clear. But, you know, deep breath, peace and harmony.

I know, feel your pain. It’s tough living in the middle of a renowned beauty spot where people come from miles around and clutter up the place.

Seriously though I think if the car parks (supermarket ones too though) blocked out alternate spaces then at least parking could be done safely.

 

[kabbes]

I just internalise the hate and nurture my ulcers.

 

[Supine]

I know, feel your pain. It’s tough living in the middle of a renowned beauty spot where people come from miles around and clutter up the place.

Seriously though I think if the car parks (supermarket ones too though) blocked out alternate spaces then at least parking could be done safely.

Up here in the lakes the police have been chasing tourists away and shaming them on Twitter. It’s still empty

 

[SpookyFrank]

Up here in the lakes the police have been chasing tourists away and shaming them on Twitter. It’s still empty

I for one am sick of people going to the middle of nowhere and wandering about a bit. I'm convinced it's this, and not inadequate infection protocols in hospitals and care homes stuffed to the gunwales with covid patients, that is permitting the ongoing spread of the virus. There is no reason to think that the police, with all their extensive scientific and medical training, would make the wrong call on this.

 

[Teaboy]

Random testing is vital if we're to get any idea of how many people in the population have been exposed, how many of those exposed develop symptoms, how many people are susceptible to becoming infected by the virus at all and various other big unknowns.

Yes I know all about the importance of random testing. I'm just interested as access to testing has been very difficult for the vast majority of the population, can anyone who has symptoms now get access to a test? If they can this must have changed very recently because I thought it was still certain groups. I was wondering whether there is a grim irony that people without symptoms are being tested whilst those with symptoms still can't get access to one?

 

[LDC]

Yes I know all about the importance of random testing. I'm just interested as access to testing has been very difficult for the vast majority of the population, can anyone who has symptoms now get access to a test? If they can this must have changed very recently because I thought it was still certain groups. I was wondering whether there is a grim irony that people without symptoms are being tested whilst those with symptoms still can't get access to one?

Just look on the gov.uk website, it changes and the most up to date info is on there.

 

[Supine]

I for one am sick of people going to the middle of nowhere and wandering about a bit. I'm convinced it's this, and not inadequate infection protocols in hospitals and care homes stuffed to the gunwales with covid patients, that is permitting the ongoing spread of the virus. There is no reason to think that the police, with all their extensive scientific and medical training, would make the wrong call on this.

How could going to the middle of nowhere cause spread? The quicker people can go to the countryside, sit on beaches or picnic in parks the better as far as I'm concerned.

It's the workplace, hospitals, churches and shops that need good control measures as far as I can see.

 

[two sheds]

How could going to the middle of nowhere cause spread? The quicker people can go to the countryside, sit on beaches or picnic in parks the better as far as I'm concerned.

It's the workplace, hospitals, churches and shops that need good control measures as far as I can see.

read his last sentence again

 

[teuchter]

It's been very tempting to take a bradawl on walks with me for their tyres and some notes saying "DON'T PARK HERE" with superglue to make sure the reason for the tyre-slashing is clear. But, you know, deep breath, peace and harmony.

Do it, and key the paintwork too. Unless they've got a disabled badge. I bet most of them live close enough that they could have easily walked or cycled there.

 

[SpookyFrank]

How could going to the middle of nowhere cause spread? The quicker people can go to the countryside, sit on beaches or picnic in parks the better as far as I'm concerned.

Yes. I was being sarcastic.

I strongly suspect the main reason the police are so keen to patrol beauty spots is it means they're getting paid to hang around the lake district all day instead of doing actual work.