Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm a bit torn on the app. I want to do it because it's the public-spirited thing to do, but I don't trust them not to use it for other things.

 

[Orang Utan]

It


No, it's optional. And not particularly intrusive I don't think.

They turned down the Google/Apple option and are going it alone.

NHS rejects Apple-Google coronavirus app plan

The UK's contact-tracing app is set to use a "centralised" system that worries privacy experts.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s not the instrusiveness that concerns me

 

[Cid]

Does anyone else see a risk here with the app of idiots reporting fake symptoms on it just for a laugh? A virtual version of coughing in supermarkets just to be a fuckwit?

Only ever likely to be a minority, they’ll probably use some complicated weighting thing to take it into account.

 

[William of Walworth]

No, it's optional. And not particularly intrusive I don't think.

They turned down the Google/Apple option and are going it alone.

NHS rejects Apple-Google coronavirus app plan

The UK's contact-tracing app is set to use a "centralised" system that worries privacy experts.

www.bbc.co.uk

Is it the above that they're doing that pilot with on the Isle of Wight?
I lot of older people there still use dial phones and drive Morris Minors .... I don't exaggerate by much!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It’s not the instrusiveness that concerns me

Yeah, bit of intrusion short-term during an emergency situation is fine, as long as it is time-limited and all the data is then destroyed. It's that second bit I don't trust.

 

[Petcha]

It’s not the instrusiveness that concerns me

Well it's not a private company doing it. They turned that down. Which personally I think was pretty stupid. Most other governments are going with Apple and Google so ours wont be compatible when/if we travel abroad

 

[prunus]

Yeah, bit of intrusion short-term during an emergency situation is fine, as long as all the data is then destroyed. It's that second bit I don't trust.

What kind of thing are people worried they’ll use it for?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What kind of thing are people worried they’ll use it for?

It's detailed information about who you associate with, when and for how long. You don't see a problem with the government gathering that information?

 

[Cid]

It says a lot that I’m less willing to trust the government with my data than sodding apple or google.

 

[Cid]

It's detailed information about who you associate with, when and for how long. You don't see a problem with the government gathering that information?

Depends what they ask for and contract terms. They will absolutely know that abusing that will mean a lot of expensive lawsuits.

 

[Petcha]

Depends what they ask for and contract terms. They will absolutely know that abusing that will mean a lot of expensive lawsuits.

It only asks for the first part of your postcode. In my case for example SW2. Otherwise it's completely anonymous.

 

[two sheds]

Is it the above that they're doing that pilot with on the Isle of Wight?
I lot of older people there still use dial phones and drive Morris Minors .... I don't exaggerate by much!

You take that back. I don't live there and I don't drive a Morris Minor

I did drive one years ago mind.

 

[two sheds]

It only asks for the first part of your postcode. In my case for example SW2. Otherwise it's completely anonymous.

That's useless for tracking though isn't it? Huge areas.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Depends what they ask for and contract terms. They will absolutely know that abusing that will mean a lot of expensive lawsuits.

tbh it's the latest in a long line of things that have crept in. My phone knows where I am anyway. My bank knows every time I take the tube. Anyone seeking to trace my activities has a wealth of data to use. This takes things up a level, though, in terms of resolution if nothing else.

 

[Cid]

And bear in mind that something that is recommended to the entire country is going to be held to a very high legal standard. You’d need to have ‘this will be used for other stuff’ stuck right next to the ‘ok’ button for it to be valid.

 

[LDC]

Will using this app thing be mandatory? I have many qualms about the government using a private profit-driven company to do this

No. AFAIK it only requires a certain % of the population to use it for it to be effective anyway.

 

[Petcha]

tbh it's the latest in a long line of things that have crept in. My phone knows where I am anyway. My bank knows every time I take the tube. Anyone seeking to trace my activities has a wealth of data to use. This takes things up a level, though, in terms of resolution if nothing else.

This is decentralised, limited to your phone - ie, not like the fucking Google tracking thing that lets your other half see how often you pop into the pub for a sneaky pint after work

 

[BigTom]

tbh it's the latest in a long line of things that have crept in. My phone knows where I am anyway. My bank knows every time I take the tube. Anyone seeking to trace my activities has a wealth of data to use. This takes things up a level, though, in terms of resolution if nothing else.

The only reason I'm not too bothered about it is because I think that GCHQ/NSA already have access (if/when they want it) to mobile phone location data. Google definitely do (since I'm on Android, Apple will I'm sure if you are on iPhone). I'm not sure this does take things up a level in that regard, unless it opens the info up to more govt. depts, as I doubt police have access to this info at the moment.

 

[LDC]

Does anyone else see a risk here with the app of idiots reporting fake symptoms on it just for a laugh? A virtual version of coughing in supermarkets just to be a fuckwit?

Think that's been built in as it's not symptom based but positive test based. And even if people do manage to report things maliciously then it just means that the people they've contacted then self-isolate, so it's not a massive problem in some ways.

 

[LDC]

It's detailed information about who you associate with, when and for how long. You don't see a problem with the government gathering that information?

It apparently doesn't use or save any personal data like name or address.

 

[Petcha]

Think that's been built in as it's not symptom based but positive test based. And even if people do manage to report things maliciously then it just means that the people they've contacted then self-isolate, so it's not a massive problem in some ways.

No, its symptom based. At first anyway. If the person gets the all clear a couple of days later it will alert you but until then you'll have to self isolate. As far as I understand it.

 

[William of Walworth]

You take that back. I don't live there and I don't drive a Morris Minor

I did drive one years ago mind.

festivaldeb's from the Island -- when we used to visit more often, it was noticeable how many 1960s and even 50s cars were driving about, and this was around 2007-2012 etc. ....

IoW seemed a strange place to do a smartphone-based pilot to me, given the demographics. Loads of oldies and retireds!

 

[LDC]

IoW seemed a strange place to do a smartphone-based pilot to me, given the demographics. Loads of oldies and retired!

That's a bonus as it shows if it's workable with a high % not using it. It's also enclosed, a decent sized population, and has good internet access.

 

[William of Walworth]

That's a bonus as it shows if it's workable with a high % not using it. It's also enclosed, a decent sized population, and has good internet access.

Fair dos -- I hadn't thought it through really, and I was going to ask here more sensibly.
Above was just my instant gut reaction!

 

[two sheds]

Those of us not leaving the house can just enter our landline numbers

 

[andysays]

With all the talk of easing lockdown, I can feel my stress levels rising again. Why would a government that was so incompetent getting us into the lockdown be any less incompetent getting us out?

As usual they're leaving the announcement of (hopefully) clear information to the last minute. It was assumed there'd be an announcement on Thursday when the lockdown was due for review, but it seems that Johnson now has some kind of speech to the nation planned for Sunday. In the meantime there's snippets of info coming out in dribs and dabs, so anything said on Sunday is likely to just be filling in the gaps of what everyone will have already figured out.

The testing program seems to have been driven purely by getting the highest numbers possible, putting quantity over quality, just so that Hancock wasn't embarrassed by missing his self imposed target. The tracking app seems cobbled together and rushed out. Isolating seems to be down to individual good will. The proposals for getting back to work seem to be driven by businesses desire to make money again, putting profit before people. There seems to be total confusion so far over how to safely open the schools again.

Maybe it'll all come together, but I'm worried that the desire to end the lockdown will see us all venturing out and the transmission rate going back up again.

Can anyone reassure me that it'll all be okay?

TBH, I think your concerns are entirely justified.

 

[LDC]

No, its symptom based. At first anyway. If the person gets the all clear a couple of days later it will alert you but until then you'll have to self isolate. As far as I understand it.

Everything you need to know about the new NHS contact tracing app

The app behind the NHS Test and Trace project failed. A second NHS Covid-19 app was released on September 24. Here's how it works

www.wired.co.uk

Yeah, my mistake. Here's a good article about it. Apparently stores no personal data.

 

[souljacker]

That's useless for tracking though isn't it? Huge areas.

It's not a tracker like GPS. All it does is record nearby bluetooth signals. If I test positive, it uses the records of the nearby bluetooth devices to compile a list of everyone I've been near then messages them. In theory, it's quite anonymous and doesn't really care if you met me in London or the lake district.

But I'll be waiting for the security bods to rip it apart and check it out before I go anywhere near it.

 

[maomao]

The app is Bluetooth based isn't it? So it works by recording who you've been physically close to. Relies on everyone having Bluetooth turned on all the time.

 

[LDC]

The app is Bluetooth based isn't it? So it works by recording who you've been physically close to. Relies on everyone having Bluetooth turned on all the time.

That's one of the problems, using Bluetooth and related battery issues. But apparently only requires more than 60% of people to use it. Suspect use will grow after initial concerns. It's likely to be a part of most of our lives in the coming months. If there's a surge in cases over the winter concerns (which I think there will be) concerns over the app will fade too.