Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[BigTom]

So what are some realistic options for those facing losing their livelihoods? If we don't have some (and by we I mean those of us who are for working class self emancipation and have a bit of a heart) then we (and they) are fucked.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I think a lot of this hangs on what you see as being realistic. We can probably agree that "one solution - revolution" would not be realistic, but getting a social democratic government in place after this? I don't see that as being out of the question. Rebuild a decent welfare state or get a universal basic income implemented as part of that? UBI is being talked about now more than ever before, but I don't think it'll happen here, but it might happen somewhere else. A better welfare state though, I think if we have a social deomcratic govt, we'll get that.

If that's realistic then we can manage this.
Those jobs won't be lost exactly, but they will move somewhere else. The jobs exist because of the demand for tourism, that demand will still exist though it's going to change. My guess is that there'll be more demand for domestic holidays and holidays in southern Europe. People will probably rather drive than fly or use trains.
This would mean the jobs will shift from airports to seaports and UK holiday destinations. If there's enough of a shift from international to domestic tourism, that would actually give a net gain in jobs.

That doesn't help people in Crawley obviously, unless somehow it becomes a major tourist destination... but if there's a proper social security system then their basic material needs will be covered and they should be supported alongside this to have opportunities to work or do something socially valuable, or indeed to move to the places that have gained jobs, although a lot of them could probably take the jobs themselves - much of the south coast of England is in a pretty poor state I think, and would stand to gain a lot from the above scenario.

 

[Pickman's model]

Starting to sound dangerously like Boris there...

I'm using short words by choice, johnson uses them by necessity

 

[treelover]

I think a lot of this hangs on what you see as being realistic. We can probably agree that "one solution - revolution" would not be realistic, but getting a social democratic government in place after this? I don't see that as being out of the question. Rebuild a decent welfare state or get a universal basic income implemented as part of that? UBI is being talked about now more than ever before, but I don't think it'll happen here, but it might happen somewhere else. A better welfare state though, I think if we have a social deomcratic govt, we'll get that.

If that's realistic then we can manage this.
Those jobs won't be lost exactly, but they will move somewhere else. The jobs exist because of the demand for tourism, that demand will still exist though it's going to change. My guess is that there'll be more demand for domestic holidays and holidays in southern Europe. People will probably rather drive than fly or use trains.
This would mean the jobs will shift from airports to seaports and UK holiday destinations. If there's enough of a shift from international to domestic tourism, that would actually give a net gain in jobs.

That doesn't help people in Crawley obviously, unless somehow it becomes a major tourist destination... but if there's a proper social security system then their basic material needs will be covered and they should be supported alongside this to have opportunities to work or do something socially valuable, or indeed to move to the places that have gained jobs, although a lot of them could probably take the jobs themselves - much of the south coast of England is in a pretty poor state I think, and would stand to gain a lot from the above scenario.

lots of tourist jobs will go in some of the poorest places as well around the globe.

 

[ska invita]

So what are some realistic options for those facing losing their livelihoods? If we don't have some (and by we I mean those of us who are for working class self emancipation and have a bit of a heart) then we (and they) are fucked.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Climate Jobs: Building a workforce for the climate emergency

The report Climate Jobs: Building a workforce for the climate emergency was produced by the Campaign against Climate Change trade union group. You can find out more about the work of the trade union group and how you can get involved here. Any trade union members are welcome to attend the online...

www.campaigncc.org

1million climate jobs
reskilling people who lose work in the name of climate change
policy worked on by climate campaigners and trade unions and adopted by Corbyn and included in the last manifesto
Voting public didnt vote for it in sufficient numbers though so we cant have that, but still, we'll be Getting Brexit Done, so there is that to fall back on instead

 

[belboid]

UBI & four day week for all

 

[SpineyNorman]

order order is quite an influential site with a broad reach across the right.

I doubt its followers are the intended audience for this group though. If everything needs to be guido approved now we're all fucked.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Of course Fawkes is a twat but nobody should be mugged that this is some sort of apolitical alternative - King can go fuck himself the twat (although the general idea of alternative SAGEs is good)

Obviously, I don't think an apolitical body is possible or desirable. It ought to be an openly and proudly political body (with a completely different membership and composition) and any effort on that front should be used to expose the right wing/neoliberal biases and assumptions of SAGE.

 

[elbows]

I note from the list of names that there is an entire sub group to look at hospital Covid-19 infections. Except it doesnt use the word nosocomial or mention hospital-acquired, the phrase used is 'hospital onset'. Because its important to get the priorities right eh. Maybe it could be justified as wanting to exclude cases where the source of infection is unclear but symptoms develop in hospital, to which I would ask whether they dont care about hospital-acquired cases as long as the onset of symptoms doesnt happen until after they leave hospital? Alternatively, they just preferred the acronym HOCI to HACI.

(near the bottom of List of participants of SAGE and related sub-groups )

 

[quimcunx]

UBI & four day week for all

Go for 3 day week.

 

[eoin_k]

...

 

[belboid]

Go for 3 day week.

i'm going for a 3 day week and £2k a month UBI. Gives a little room to compromise

 

[Mation]

Click on the draft button and choose 'delete draft'.

I've used this today. Didn't know it was possible before your post. You have saved me endless annoyance. Thank you!

 

[two sheds]

UK government 'using pandemic to transfer NHS duties to private sector'

Critics claim Matt Hancock has accelerated dismantling of state healthcare

www.theguardian.com

Now there's a surprise.

Cunts

 

[Marty1]

Or keep everyone working from home.

I reckon a lot of places will be reconsidering if they really need to rent the offices they currently do.

I hope I can go back and get my shoes at least

Yeah, my gf is loving working from home but her employer seems a bit coy when she asked if she could continue doing so after the lockdown.

 

[rutabowa]

Yeah, my gf is loving working from home but her employer seems a bit coy when she asked if she could continue doing so after the lockdown.

They probably don't know themselves.... I was more thinking it would be the employers wanting people to work from home in the future, all that money on office rent must look a bit extravagant atm.

 

[Mation]

UK government 'using pandemic to transfer NHS duties to private sector'

Critics claim Matt Hancock has accelerated dismantling of state healthcare

www.theguardian.com

Now there's a surprise.

Cunts

There was a blog I came across a couple three years ago, likely linked from here, that had lots of detail about how the NHS was being packaged off.

In particular it had lots about NHS Trusts having to sell land and buildings in order to receive equipment, and how it was all going through a company that had NHS in its name (or something that would make you think it was actually public and NHS, even though it wasn't).

Can anyone remember what I'm on about and, if so, whether it's still going and, further, if it's collating any/all of this kind of shit too?

Someone put loads of effort into providing the kind of elbows- and 2hats-level detailed evidence that's useful for sharing, all in one place (and I lost the link )

 

[Mation]

It wasn't this site, but this looks interesting...

Home - NHS for Sale

Is privatisation bad for your health? We are researchers and journalists investigating and collecting the evidence about the impact and scope of NHS privatisation – in the public interest ... Read more

www.nhscampaign.org

NHS For Sale?
We have launched a website to look at the evidence around the issue of NHS privatisation – nhsforsale.info.

On it there are a range of graphics, articles and reports to help explain what's happening.

There is a also a database about the impact of health policy.

It's all based on data and research that's sourced. The idea is to track privatisation of the NHS and provide an accurate picture for all to see.

 

[frogwoman]

Woman told she's not allowed her test results

is there any truth to this story or is it just a miscommunication or something?

 

[BigTom]

'Time has come' for universal basic income, says Sturgeon

Coronavirus prompts Scotland’s first minister to make UBI a policy priority

www.independent.co.uk

Nicola sturgeon pushing for ubi in Scotland.

 

[LDC]

Woman told she's not allowed her test results

is there any truth to this story or is it just a miscommunication or something?

Not heard that from anywhere else, and surely it'd be massive news if true, and it's from a bit ago too. It sounds like a misunderstanding, or she'd messed up the process in some way. Never heard that key worker/front line worker distinction before either.

 

[Looby]

Woman told she's not allowed her test results

is there any truth to this story or is it just a miscommunication or something?

From what I’ve heard it’s the opposite so even if your employer requests the test for you, the results will only be given to you.
Sounds like either she or the person she spoke to have got the wrong end of the stick.

My friend tried to book for our local centre and they had no available appointments. We’re assuming they’ve run out rather than being at capacity as it hasn’t been that busy.

 

[Boudicca]

From what I’ve heard it’s the opposite so even if your employer requests the test for you, the results will only be given to you.
Sounds like either she or the person she spoke to have got the wrong end of the stick.

My friend tried to book for our local centre and they had no available appointments. We’re assuming they’ve run out rather than being at capacity as it hasn’t been that busy.

There's some talk about this on the local Covid FB page. It sounds like an IT cock up - appointments aren't showing as available but if you just turn up you get a test as there is no-one there. So worth double checking.

 

[Looby]

There's some talk about this on the local Covid FB page. It sounds like an IT cock up - appointments aren't showing as available but if you just turn up you get a test as there is no-one there. So worth double checking.

Oh thanks, I’ll let her know, I mostly avoid local FB groups but are they worth getting on?

 

[Boudicca]

Oh thanks, I’ll let her know, I mostly avoid local FB groups but are they worth getting on?

As with most FB groups, you have to wade through the endless repetitive questions & pointless posts but there is useful info buried in there too.

Your BCP Community Support Group - Bournemouth, Christchurch & Poole | Facebook

Since this group started in the height of the Covid & lockdown period, it has been amazing to see the help and support offered and given through a very stressful time. Well done to everyone involved....

www.facebook.com

 

[Petcha]

Does anyone else see a risk here with the app of idiots reporting fake symptoms on it just for a laugh? A virtual version of coughing in supermarkets just to be a fuckwit?

 

[Spandex]

With all the talk of easing lockdown, I can feel my stress levels rising again. Why would a government that was so incompetent getting us into the lockdown be any less incompetent getting us out?

As usual they're leaving the announcement of (hopefully) clear information to the last minute. It was assumed there'd be an announcement on Thursday when the lockdown was due for review, but it seems that Johnson now has some kind of speech to the nation planned for Sunday. In the meantime there's snippets of info coming out in dribs and dabs, so anything said on Sunday is likely to just be filling in the gaps of what everyone will have already figured out.

The testing program seems to have been driven purely by getting the highest numbers possible, putting quantity over quality, just so that Hancock wasn't embarrassed by missing his self imposed target. The tracking app seems cobbled together and rushed out. Isolating seems to be down to individual good will. The proposals for getting back to work seem to be driven by businesses desire to make money again, putting profit before people. There seems to be total confusion so far over how to safely open the schools again.

Maybe it'll all come together, but I'm worried that the desire to end the lockdown will see us all venturing out and the transmission rate going back up again.

Can anyone reassure me that it'll all be okay?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

As far as I know, thus far, every European country that has started easing has found it to be ok. All of them are easing slowly and have provisions to reverse decisions if infection rates rise, but none has seen it necessary to reverse any decision yet.

At the very least, the idiots in charge here will be able to learn from the experiences of more competent administrations. Be more of a worry if the UK were one of the first to do it. As it is, we'll be one of the last.

 

[Orang Utan]

Will using this app thing be mandatory? I have many qualms about the government using a private profit-driven company to do this

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Will using this app thing be mandatory? I have many qualms about the government using a private profit-driven company to do this

Don't see how it can be. Having a smartphone isn't mandatory.

 

[Petcha]

It

Will using this app thing be mandatory? I have many qualms about the government using a private profit-driven company to do this

No, it's optional. And not particularly intrusive I don't think.

They turned down the Google/Apple option and are going it alone.

NHS rejects Apple-Google coronavirus app plan

The UK's contact-tracing app is set to use a "centralised" system that worries privacy experts.

www.bbc.co.uk