Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[two sheds]

Yes looks like you're right, although as agricola said inquests have passed comment on government policy type decisions:

However, coroners have in the past ruled on the provision of protective equipment. When the Oxfordshire assistant deputy coroner Andrew Walker investigated the death of Steve Roberts, a tank commander who died in Iraq when he was not supplied with enhanced body armour, he concluded that the lack of appropriate basic equipment was “unforgivable and inexcusable and represents a breach of trust that those soldiers have in the government”.

 

[agricola]

Does this mean that inquests into the effects of coronavirus on NHS staff will not look at the contribution of lack of PPE to staff outcomes, or that they won't consider any political/policy decisions that contributed to those outcomes?

I read the headline as the former but the article itself as the latter.

It seems to mean that the Coroner could look at where a Trust had failed to supply PPE to a person in its employ who subsequently caught this (because of the lack of PPE) and then died.

The Coroner could not however look at why the Trust didn't have the PPE if that was because of failures of policy / the national supply chain / lack of equipment and the reasons whereof.

 

[Mation]

It seems to mean that the Coroner could look at where a Trust had failed to supply PPE to a person in its employ who subsequently caught this (because of the lack of PPE) and then died.

The Coroner could not however look at why the Trust didn't have the PPE if that was because of failures of policy / the national supply chain / lack of equipment and the reasons whereof.

Yep, that's how I read it.

This seems useful, imo.

Get the evidence of exactly what happened and the result of that first. Then you've got something to go at the policy-makers (government) with. Try to do both in one and there's all sorts of room for 'evidence' that what did happen wasn't technically anyone's fault above local level, and didn't even technically happen, because of whatever blah blah bullshit.

 

[Dogsauce]

I wonder how they can tell one way or another whether everyone is being truthful about their job?

They‘re not even asking the question, I did a test last Saturday and it doesn‘t come up on the application, though at the beginning it does refer you to a list of eligible occupations. I guess if there isn’t huge demand at the drive-in sites it’s not a problem.

 

[agricola]

Yep, that's how I read it.

This seems useful, imo.

Get the evidence of exactly what happened and the result of that first. Then you've got something to go at the policy-makers (government) with. Try to do both in one and there's all sorts of room for 'evidence' that what did happen wasn't technically anyone's fault above local level, and didn't even technically happen, because of whatever blah blah bullshit.

I don't think it is, unless the advice allows coroners to issue narrative findings saying that the person died because of a national lack of PPE (and the reasons for that would need to be established by a fully constituted public inquiry).

 

[Mation]

I don't think it is, unless the advice allows coroners to issue narrative findings saying that the person died because of a national lack of PPE (and the reasons for that would need to be established by a fully constituted public inquiry).

I was thinking of a public enquiry based on a multitude of individual coroners' reports that all say that a local lack of PPE was a factor. That begs a big question of why all these similar cases everywhere.

 

[Shechemite]

Bastards

 

[Dogsauce]

It’s not just the coroner, according to a risk assessment thing that’s been put together for us at work, COVID deaths are reportable under RIDDOR. This should apply to healthcare workers as with anyone else.

HSE has issued details of when and how you should report coronavirus incidents under RIDDOR (the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 2013). For information this is as follows:

• an unintended incident at work has led to someone’s possible or actual exposure to coronavirus. This must be reported as a dangerous occurrence.
• a worker has been diagnosed as having COVID-19 and there is reasonable evidence that it was caused by exposure at work. This must be reported as a case of disease.
• a worker dies as a result of occupational exposure to coronavirus.

 

[agricola]

I was thinking of a public enquiry based on a multitude of individual coroners' reports that all say that a local lack of PPE was a factor. That begs a big question of why all these similar cases everywhere.

That is what would be needed, but of course the advice doesn't say that and could be read to say that the Coroner cannot look into that (which might mean they couldn't use it as a finding).

 

[Mation]

That is what would be needed, but of course the advice doesn't say that and could be read to say that the Coroner cannot look into that (which might mean they couldn't use it as a finding).

Now I'm confused

I thought we'd both agreed that the advice would allow the what but not the why of lack of PPE?

 

[Mation]

Bastards

This is something we can all get behind.

 

[agricola]

Now I'm confused

I thought we'd both agreed that the advice would allow the what but not the why of lack of PPE?

The advice appears to allow the lack of PPE to be something the coroner might find, but not why the PPE was lacking unless it is something specific to that unit / Trust.

If the fault lies with the national supply chain etc then the Coroner may not be able to say that the death was caused by a (national) lack of PPE.

 

[Mation]

The advice appears to allow the lack of PPE to be something the coroner might find, but not why the PPE was lacking unless it is something specific to that unit / Trust.

If the fault lies with the national supply chain etc then the Coroner may not be able to say that the death was caused by a (national) lack of PPE.

Yes, that's where we started. I've already said my follow-on bits, so I'll leave it there

 

[Dogsauce]

I can foresee lawsuits aplenty for hospital-acquired infections, that’ll cost a few bob.

 

[zahir]

 

[two sheds]

From Michael R on that thread - don't know how true it is because I've not been watching the news but I like the sentiment.

 

[weepiper]

Edinburgh is starting to close roads to create better social distancing space for pedestrians and cyclists

Emergency closure of three Edinburgh roads for walkers and cyclists

The city council is to shut Silverknowes Road, Braid Road and Links Gardens within days.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

 

[ash]

Edinburgh is starting to close roads to create better social distancing space for pedestrians and cyclists

Emergency closure of three Edinburgh roads for walkers and cyclists

The city council is to shut Silverknowes Road, Braid Road and Links Gardens within days.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

Lambeth have said they will be doing this

 

[ash]

Lambeth have said they will be doing this

Looks like they’ve started

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yes looks like you're right, although as agricola said inquests have passed comment on government policy type decisions:

I would consider a tank to be a pretty high standard of PPE, but that's just me. I'm sure the people he was fighting would have gladly traded their kit (some rocks, apparently) for his.

 

[Marty1]

Amazon are extending their extra £2 per hour to workers and associates for another 2 weeks after which they will review it.

Will the lockdown be eased by then?

 

[Raheem]

Anyone have a serious explanation as to why Tory backbenchers seem fixated on the re-opening of garden centres?

 

[Marty1]

Anyone have a serious explanation as to why Tory backbenchers seem fixated on the re-opening of garden centres?

10% off every Wednesday for B&Q over 65yr old diamond card members.

 

[Marty1]

The M4 - top pic April 27th, bottom pic April 10th



Been reading some media reports claiming that an unofficial end of lockdown is slowly emerging as people people want to feel a sense of normal again.

 

[emanymton]

The M4 - top pic April 27th, bottom pic April 10th

View attachment 209736

Been reading some media reports claiming that an unofficial end of lockdown is slowly emerging as people people want to feel a sense of normal again.

10th April was a bank holiday so not a working day. Also were the 2 pictures taken at the same time of day?

 

[maomao]

reading some media reports claiming that an unofficial end of lockdown is slowly emerging

Where?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Anyone have a serious explanation as to why Tory backbenchers seem fixated on the re-opening of garden centres?

As a first step, it would be a logical one, as they can easily introduce social distancing based on the model used by the supermarkets & the DIY sheds, such as B&Q.

 

[komodo]

Not heard much re 111 call centres. advice to the public is to ring them andnot trouble their GP re C19. Round here at least, callers are split into Covid and non- Covid when the ring111.Also they are supporting those looking after very ill people at home - helping them to assess breathing and advising when they should call 999. They are doing a very good job on that from what I’ve heard. So should have some useful data on spread. Is this available?

 

[planetgeli]

Anyone have a serious explanation as to why Tory backbenchers seem fixated on the re-opening of garden centres?

Used overwhelmingly but not exclusively by an older cohort. So, playing to their voters.

The same older people who are disproportionately affected badly by coronavirus.

 

[Doodler]

Prediction corner: many working-age people from 50 year-olds onwards will drop out of the labour force for a long time, even permanently.

Due to reluctance to work during a possible second wave of infections during the summer. Fear of increasing restlessness and transmission from people who don't feel at risk and who care little for others. Low confidence in the government to act decisively. High unemployment plus discrimination against older people trying to re-enter the jobs market. Raiding of pension pots (for those that have them) from age 55 as an alternative source of income, although the value of many may have taken a big hit.