Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Brainaddict]

It's a mixture. UK's official figures are hospital deaths only, as are Italy's. France switched to include care homes a little while back, and Belgium is trying to count all deaths everywhere, even including some that are suspected rather than confirmed.

It's very hard comparing figures for that reason. Belgium looks awful but is probably about the same as here. France is probably a bit better than here. You can compare the UK with Italy directly as they use more or less the same criteria.

Ah, thanks. Still seems a bit of a propaganda coup for the government that they're allowed to get away with giving hospital-only deaths as the headline figure and the guardian, bbc etc just quote that as the death count.

 

[killer b]

Hospital deaths are reported daily, other deaths much less regularly - I think it makes some sense to use the daily tally from hospital deaths as a guide (along with other metrics) to how we're doing - but it should be a lot more explicit that's what it's being used for.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Hospital deaths are reported daily, other deaths much less regularly - I think it makes some sense to use the daily tally from hospital deaths as a guide (along with other metrics) to how we're doing - but it should be a lot more explicit that's what it's being used for.

It's even further complicated by the differing attitudes towards comorbidities in different countries. At least that aspect is clear here - everyone dying in hospital who has C19 is being included in the figures, regardless of any comorbidities.

 

[Brainaddict]

Hospital deaths are reported daily, other deaths much less regularly - I think it makes some sense to use the daily tally from hospital deaths as a guide (along with other metrics) to how we're doing - but it should be a lot more explicit that's what it's being used for.

The hospital deaths certainly measures something important and should be recorded and reported of course, but here is the Guardian's main coronavirus update page, which says: "the UK, which now has 21,092 fatalities from the virus. "

Coronavirus 28 April: at a glance

A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak

www.theguardian.com

Which is just not true.

They could say 21k hospital fatalities to make it more true. But really most people probably want to know how many people have died from covid-19 in the UK. Which is, what, 30k+ now? I'm just finding this approach odd.

 

[maomao]

Which is, what, 30k+ now? I'm just finding this approach odd.

FT estimated 42k about a week ago. That would have us closing in on 50k by now.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

FFS.

"Can we hug our grandchildren?"

"Depends."

Jesus wept.

They were from my home town. I feel the need to apologise for the whole of Skipton.

 

[Brainaddict]

FT estimated 42k about a week ago. That would have us closing in on 50k by now.

So are any news outlets providing running totals of all the deaths we know about as one of their headline figures?

 

[Orang Utan]

They were from my home town. I feel the need to apologise for the whole of Skipton.

Why? It’s a good question

 

[LDC]

Why? It’s a good question

It's a stupid question, the answer depends on so many ifs and buts it's meaningless. The answer is obvious, 'it depends'.

 

[Chilli.s]

I get the feeling the press would like lockdown gone as soon as poss so they can sell more newspapers.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Why? It’s a good question

LynnDoyleCooper answer puts it better than I could.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's a stupid question, the answer depends on so many ifs and buts it's meaningless. The answer is obvious, 'it depends'.

Not sure why it’s stupid. People are getting desperate. I want to hug my nieces and it’s getting tough

 

[LDC]

Not sure why it’s stupid. People are getting desperate. I want to hug my nieces and it’s getting tough

Of course, but as a question to a government minister at a national press conference during the biggest crisis since WW2? Mawkish and idiotic nonsense.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Not sure why it’s stupid. People are getting desperate. I want to hug my nieces and it’s getting tough

I want to hug my parents and I'm sure they want to hug their grandson but that doesn't negate it was a mawkish question.

 

[Orang Utan]

I’m sure it’s something in the front of millions of people’s minds though

 

[andysays]

I think it's an understandable question, but not one which it's possible to give a simple yes/no answer to.

If the answer that's given gives some appreciation of the complexities of the situation (haven't seen it, so don't know whether it did or not) then it's potentially useful question to respond to.

 

[2hats]

So are any news outlets providing running totals of all the deaths we know about as one of their headline figures?

Lead story on Al-Jazeera right now. Pointing out on April 10 the official death count announced on the day (essentially entirely in hospitals) was 9K when the ONS figures reveal over 13K deaths. By April 17 the disparity was 14K versus 21K deaths. That would suggest up to 30K deaths today. And that's before one starts considering the excess all-cause mortality figures, which would inflate it further.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Any question I submitted would be about the government 's lackadaisical response to the pandemic!

 

[Orang Utan]

Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Any question I submitted would be about the government 's lackadaisical response to the pandemic!

Most people just want to know when things will get back to normal. Of course there is no answer, but it’s still a reasonable thing to want to ask

 

[planetgeli]

Why? It’s a good question

People are dying in their thousands through government incompetence. Health workers are dying through lack of PPE. These questions (one a day) were opened up to the public under the guise of transparency in govt decision making. "Ministers will not be able to see the question beforehand". Many people feel the questions being asked by journalists are failing to grill the government sufficiently. "Cabinet ministers will now get a grilling from members of the public".

It was a shit question in the context of all that.

 

[Orang Utan]

I think a shit question to answer but not to ask

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Most people just want to know when things will get back to normal. Of course there is no answer, but it’s still a reasonable thing to want to ask

I personally think there are other more reasonable things to ask first.

 

[two sheds]

When are nurses going to get proper pay and conditions? would be my question. I'd expect the answer 'this is not the time to answer such a question' but that's always the way that once the emergency is over there's no pressure to improve things any more.

 

[andysays]

When are nurses going to get proper pay and conditions? would be my question. I'd expect the answer 'this is not the time to answer such a question' but that's always the way that once the emergency is over there's no pressure to improve things any more.

That would be my question, though I think I'd broaden it far beyond nurses and other NHS workers

 

[two sheds]

Yes low-paid essential workers indeed.

 

[PD58]

It makes one wonder if there were 15,000 quesiosn (i think Hancock said) how did this 'independent' PR firm come up with this selection...I suspect a random spin of the wheel. It allowed two of the participants to demonstrate their humanity, which as i see is not what the briefings are about...so it is fair enough for Lyne to submit the question as it is her concern but it should not have been chosen.

 

[killer b]

Didn't the government get to choose which questions to answer? In which case, they were bound to choose the question with no real answer which allows them to emote, and not the the question with some very specific answers which puts them on the spot. Don't blame the questioner for it though - if that lady hadn't have said it, there'll have been a thousand others exactly the same to choose from.

 

[killer b]

how did this 'independent' PR firm come up with this selection...I suspect a random spin of the wheel.

lol

 

[Orang Utan]

It makes one wonder if there were 15,000 quesiosn (i think Hancock said) how did this 'independent' PR firm come up with this selection...I suspect a random spin of the wheel. It allowed two of the participants to demonstrate their humanity, which as i see is not what the briefings are about...so it is fair enough for Lyne to submit the question as it is her concern but it should not have been chosen.

I doubt it was random as it was a safe question to answer cos it’s ‘we don’t know’. Of course they’re not going to answer the most pertinent questions about their competence

 

[killer b]

The independent PR company being paid by the government to carry out a service know their job, and it isn't to let through difficult questions.