Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[bimble]

Oh yeah, he sort of flounced after Johnson was elected i forgot. Is he right though ? I mean in a parallel world where we had all the tests needed and the people to do them.

 

[brogdale]

Oh yeah, he sort of flounced after Johnson was elected i forgot. Is he right though ? I mean in a parallel world where we had all the tests needed and the people to do them.

Common sense would suggest so.
For one, if we could test all health-care/social care frontliners there wouldn't be the depth of the emerging staffing crisis resulting from precautionary isolation etc.

 

[Azrael]

The bit quoting Jeremy Hunt's piece published in the telegraph surprises me. he is saying mass testing & contact tracing is the way to go . Is he saying that because that is the plan?

"The restaurants are open in South Korea. You can go shopping in Taiwan. Offices are open in Singapore,” Hunt wrote. “These countries learned the hard way how to deal with a pandemic after the deadly Sars virus. They now show us how we can emerge from lockdown..
“Where you find it, you can isolate and contain it,” Hunt wrote “And where you don’t [find the virus], vital services continue to function. With mass testing, accompanied by rigorous tracing of every person a Covid-19 patient has been in touch with, you can break the chain of transmission.”

Is he speaking out of line there or is this the gov line ?

Been speaking outa line for weeks, ever since the "herd immunity" cluster a few weeks back. Suspect men in grey suits are circling if this rudderless govt keeps up the blundering as the casualties rise.

Who knows what the govt line is ATM, as the Whitehall sicklist grows by the day, there barely is a functioning government (what's new, but even worse). Half-hearted attempt at suppression via a lockdown appears to be it, maybe as cover for herd immunity by stealth, but don't know if they're even capable of having a coherent policy ATM. The CMO's in his Covid-19 funk hole, and his deputy has some unhinged personal belief that mass testing's only for poor countries. Chaos reigns.

 

[killer b]

Oh yeah, he sort of flounced after Johnson was elected i forgot. Is he right though ? I mean in a parallel world where we had all the tests needed and the people to do them.

If/when the current pandemic is under control then something like that'll realistically be the only way of returning to some kind of normality, until theres a vaccine

 

[Chilli.s]

Its obvious though, the testing. Hunt is just taking a punt at being able to further his own ambitions.

 

[Azrael]

AFAICS he's ostensibly speaking for himself as chair of the H&SC select committee, but in reality it shows the depth of his resentment at rejection by the party and the degree of his delusion about his future chances. Very much not Johnson.

May not be so delusional, he clearly has powerful Tory allies if Boris' own house rag is giving him a platform to attack government inaction. Tim Shipman reported that him and Rory Stewart speaking out gave others in Cabinet guts to threaten resignation if suppression measures weren't stepped up. If nothing else, he's useful for piling pressure on the Whitehall mess.

 

[Azrael]

Its obvious though, the testing. Hunt is just taking a punt at being able to further his own ambitions.

Very likely, but it's a punt that helps us all, so more power to him on this. He heaped praise on Johnson when he was stuck on the sick and bundled into No. 11, so Al should be really worried!

 

[hash tag]

If this were near you, would you not have a slight urge to go and see this one off thing? Peak District’s toxic ‘Blue Lagoon’ dyed black to deter gatherings during coronavirus lockdown

 

[Azrael]

Gove flailing around about testing on Guardian's live blog, praising Germany, usual guff about now not the time to look back, Britain rising up league table. U-turn ahead? We'll see.

If so, please make the deputy CMO make the announcement, and explain how it's not just for poor countries without the NHS.

And in the most morbid of Freudian slips, live blog says government's aim is to increase the death toll ...

 

[bimble]

well spotted.

 

[Azrael]

Can't stand the sight and sound of Wormtongue, so not watching, but assume he didn't actually say that ('cause these days ...).

 

[Azrael]

Now Blair's on Sky calling for mass testing ASAP as route back to semblance of normality. Midas touch in reverse among most people, but the Westminster bubble still worship him, so worthwhile. If nothing else should drive up interest among the PLP.

 

[Edie]

I’ve been quite impressed with the Government so far in the crisis. They are taking, and acting on, scientific and medical advice. On the whole they’ve communicated clearly. They have not been afraid to make big decisions, such as the 80% wages, closing non-essential business, and constructing with the Army and the NHS a massive new covid hospital NHS Nightingale very quickly.

After a slightly beurocratic and slow start, NHS England appears to be doing a reasonable job at making us as ready as possible. Yes, we need more PPE, more testing, more ventilators- but visible steps leading to procurement as quickly as possible appears to have occurred. Overall, I feel as if we have leadership and there is a national effort underway.

 

[Smangus]

Wormtongue - Good call

 

[lefteri]

If this were near you, would you not have a slight urge to go and see this one off thing? Peak District’s toxic ‘Blue Lagoon’ dyed black to deter gatherings during coronavirus lockdown

goths would overcome their natural social distancing instincts to descend en masse

 

[Azrael]

I've said plenty about the government's strategy (if you can dignify it as such) elsewhere, but if nothing else, their tone's abysmal. Went for Churchillian, landed on the bastard son of Quisling and the Grim Reaper without the charm. Fatalistic surrender isn't how you inspire people for a common fight, lads.

 

[Cid]

It’s probably worth remembering that when Hunt bangs on about testing, he was health sec from 2012-2018, then foreign sec, and there is presumably a reason we don’t have enough tests.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I’ve been quite impressed with the Government so far in the crisis. They are taking, and acting on, scientific and medical advice. On the whole they’ve communicated clearly. They have not been afraid to make big decisions, such as the 80% wages, closing non-essential business, and constructing with the Army and the NHS a massive new covid hospital NHS Nightingale very quickly.

After a slightly beurocratic and slow start, NHS England appears to be doing a reasonable job at making us as ready as possible. Yes, we need more PPE, more testing, more ventilators- but visible steps leading to procurement as quickly as possible appears to have occurred. Overall, I feel as if we have leadership and there is a national effort underway.

Compare and contrast with Germany. UK govt has been shit and now playing catchup. Not the only one . France Spain equally shit. Worth noting that many other European countries wouldn't need that 80% pay emergency legislation cos that's already their system. What are the chances of us keeping it when this ends?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It’s probably worth remembering that when Hunt bangs on about testing, he was health sec from 2012-2018, then foreign sec, and there is presumably a reason we don’t have enough tests.

And ppe. And ventilators...

 

[Azrael]

All true, as he well knows, so expect he hopes he can redeem himself with this. If it motivates him to pressure a U-turn, small price to pay.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I’ve been quite impressed with the Government so far in the crisis. They are taking, and acting on, scientific and medical advice. On the whole they’ve communicated clearly. They have not been afraid to make big decisions, such as the 80% wages, closing non-essential business, and constructing with the Army and the NHS a massive new covid hospital NHS Nightingale very quickly.

After a slightly beurocratic and slow start, NHS England appears to be doing a reasonable job at making us as ready as possible. Yes, we need more PPE, more testing, more ventilators- but visible steps leading to procurement as quickly as possible appears to have occurred. Overall, I feel as if we have leadership and there is a national effort underway.

Strikes me as being consistent - in as, consistently a day late and a dollar short. Their entire strategy had to be ditched after an outcry from people who inexplicably could see the dangers inherent in it ages before them. The WHO's line was "test, test, test" and the gov have only just cranked that up and nowhere near enough. We WILL be short of ICU beds and ventilators and PPE for health-care professionals because the gov sat on their hands for weeks just waiting to see if the UK was miraculously differently affected by C19 than every other country. The half-arsed lockdown with its perpetually confusing mixed messages has undoubtedly been badly thought out and terribly implemented. And worst of all everything that's going wrong or will go wrong will be blamed on everyone but those who had the powers to deal with it all much, much better.

 

[planetgeli]

And in the most morbid of Freudian slips, live blog says government's aim is to increase the death toll ...

The other day that blog had a headline saying 'the NHS should not be able to cope'.

Took 30 mins for them to change it to 'the NHS should now be able to cope'

 

[Azrael]

It's consistently been the most self-defeating disaster they could engineer. Prioritize the economy above lives, end up tanking it anyway, and with a spiraling death toll. If they'd imposed a rigourous surveillance, test and quarantine system, there's every chance we could now be where South Korea are, or even where Taiwan is. The right thing to do would've been the smart thing to do. But no, Cummings just had to go for his Strangelove tribute act.

 

[killer b]

And worst of all everything that's going wrong or will go wrong will be blamed on everyone but those who had the powers to deal with it all much, much better.

there's an interesting bit in the latest Talking Politics podcast, where they're talking about cholera epidemics of the 19th century (the whole thing is pretty interesting, but this bit struck me in particular) where it turns out the poor - with their carelessness, immorality and promiscuity - were blamed for the spread of the disease.

 

[Brainaddict]

On the whole they’ve communicated clearly.

Even if I could buy the rest of what you say, which I don't, this is absolute fantasyland. You must be occupying some parallel reality to me. I literally don't understand how you can think this.

 

[Azrael]

there's an interesting bit in the latest Talking Politics podcast, where they're talking about cholera epidemics of the 19th century (the whole thing is pretty interesting, but this bit struck me in particular) where it turns out the poor - with their carelessness, immorality and promiscuity - were blamed for the spread of the disease.

Thanks a lot for that, been drawing attention to our failure to learn from Victorian public health measures in recent days, podcast should be a salutary (if depressing) reminder of the disasters that led to their creation. We're having to relearn forgotten lessons. Without going too Battlestar Galactica, all this has happened before, and will happen again.

 

[kebabking]

I’ve been quite impressed with the Government so far in the crisis. They are taking, and acting on, scientific and medical advice. On the whole they’ve communicated clearly. They have not been afraid to make big decisions, such as the 80% wages, closing non-essential business, and constructing with the Army and the NHS a massive new covid hospital NHS Nightingale very quickly.

After a slightly beurocratic and slow start, NHS England appears to be doing a reasonable job at making us as ready as possible. Yes, we need more PPE, more testing, more ventilators- but visible steps leading to procurement as quickly as possible appears to have occurred. Overall, I feel as if we have leadership and there is a national effort underway.

I take a similar view - I've been involved in the military response and support to PHE and the NHS since the beginning of January, and as a general rule I tend the think the worst of politicians just to save time - HMG has been switched on to the dangers of this since the beginning, and has never shyed away from morally/ideologically difficult, terrifyingly expensive and bitter tasting decisions, but the communication and public education element of this has been utterly woeful, particularly of late. You've also had public bodies directly working against each other with absolutely no ministerial grip.

I've been pleasantly surprised (albeit from a somewhat low baseline) with Johnson's willingness to not be the populist moron that Trump has been - he has followed what the CMO, CSA and PHE were telling him, he hasn't flinched at taking decisions that could, given the uncertainties involved, come back to haunt him - but again the communication, and understanding how critical public education would be has been crap.

Sunak and Hancock have been the stand-out performers, both publicly and in government. Jon Ashworth has been Labours star - Hancock wants him appointed as his deputy at health if there's a COBR 'national government'- Corbyn has been dreadful, and surprisingly, McDonnell has only been marginally better.

 

[Cid]

And ppe. And ventilators...

To be fair I think the ventilator situation was a little less predictable. At least there don’t seem to be any other countries that prepared for that.

 

[bimble]

To be fair I think the ventilator situation was a little less predictable. At least there don’t seem to be any other countries that prepared for that.

Germany ordered an extra 10,000 new ventilators weeks ago, despite having many times more than we do already (adjusted for population). Why were we so much slower?

 

[xes]

To be fair I think the ventilator situation was a little less predictable. At least there don’t seem to be any other countries that prepared for that.

Oh I don't know, compared to other countries we've not got many. I mean, Italy has twice the amount we do per 100,000 people. (going by this image) Looks like something we've needed to increase for a long time. Did a bit after SARS but not enough. I think we increased the units that oxygenate the blood from 5 to 30. That's woeful.