Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[kabbes]

But thats not entirely balanced or fair either, I should take more steps back, and then end up in territory where we can ponder inequality and being left unprotected via phrases like 'work from home if you can'.

On that score, I can tell you that I sit in on our continuity planning meetings at work (which deals with our offices in all countries across Europe, the Middle East and Africa) and the approach that has been taken since the summer is “if a government isn’t mandating it, it doesn’t exist”. So when governments put out messages that merely say things like, “we’d prefer you to work from home if possible”, that is heard as, “carry on as you were”.

 

[andysays]

On that score, I can tell you that I sit in on our continuity planning meetings at work (which deals with our offices in all countries across Europe, the Middle East and Africa) and the approach that has been taken since the summer is “if a government isn’t mandating it, it doesn’t exist”. So when governments put out messages that merely say things like, “we’d prefer you to work from home if possible”, that is heard as, “carry on as you were”.

And I'm sure that governments are fully aware of that when making those statements.

 

[StoneRoad]

On that score, I can tell you that I sit in on our continuity planning meetings at work (which deals with our offices in all countries across Europe, the Middle East and Africa) and the approach that has been taken since the summer is “if a government isn’t mandating it, it doesn’t exist”. So when governments put out messages that merely say things like, “we’d prefer you to work from home if possible”, that is heard as, “carry on as you were”.

Which is why the UK obv has still got such a stupidly high case rate.
I'm still taking precautions such as masks etc when meeting people or in crowded areas.

Despite my booster jag, I shall be watching carefully for mentions of this new Omicron.
And taking action, even if the gov't don't ...

Although, the red listing this time was pretty quick for them.
I'm sure that they still want to be seen to save chrimble ...

 

[kabbes]

Which is why the UK obv has still got such a stupidly high case rate.

It’s the same thing in a lot of European countries, to be honest. A lot of governments say things like “we’d prefer you to work from home”, which businesses can then safely treat as if nothing has been said at all.

 

[Cloo]

Well, the Daily Express headline today says it'll all be fine, so clearly we're totally fucked.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Well, the Daily Express headline today says it'll all be fine, so clearly we're totally fucked.

 

[Sue]

It’s the same thing in a lot of European countries, to be honest. A lot of governments say things like “we’d prefer you to work from home”, which businesses can then safely treat as if nothing has been said at all.

My (German) company has just announced everyone is to wfh until June (it was January before). I've worked for them since August, haven't been into the office at all and it's not even been vaguely hinted at that I should. My German colleagues seem to reckon this approach is standard over there.

 

[kabbes]

My (German) company has just announced everyone is to wfh until June (it was January before). I've worked for them since August, haven't been into the office at all and it's not even been vaguely hinted at that I should. My German colleagues seem to reckon this approach is standard over there.

There’s now a government mandate in Germany to work at home unless there are compelling operational reasons why this is not possible. They are thus an example of governments creating more than just “advice” to WFH.

I guess the German company is just following its home office.

 

[Cloo]

View attachment 298382

Maybe it was the Mail - I dunno, those right wing rags all look the same to me...

 

[kabbes]

The bit I don’t really have an answer to in BCP meetings is, “if the government says it’s okay to work in the office, who are we to say otherwise? Why are we doing something we’re not being explicitly told to?” If that’s the attitude at the top level, there’s not much anyone can really say in response without firm rules to fall back on.

At best, “guidance” to work from home is just the difference between being given a mandatory instruction to return to office and having soft pressure to do it.

 

[Brainaddict]

The bit I don’t really have an answer to in BCP meetings is, “if the government says it’s okay to work in the office, who are we to say otherwise? Why are we doing something we’re not being explicitly told to?” If that’s the attitude at the top level, there’s not much anyone can really say in response without firm rules to fall back on.

There's quite an easy answer to that in a factual sense: the government has been negligent about people's health and we can choose not to be negligent ourselves by sticking to stricter rules than the government mandates. But I realise that senior management are often (a) focused on the bottom line and (b) personality types with high levels of conformism in their makeup, and therefore disinclined to do anything they aren't ordered to do.

 

[gentlegreen]

Maybe it was the Mail - I dunno, those right wing rags all look the same to me...

This appears to be a key concern of their readers ...

 

[Chilli.s]

Supermarket in NE had about 7% masked today

I double bagged it, can't be too careful, the fuckin twats

 

[kabbes]

There's quite an easy answer to that in a factual sense: the government has been negligent about people's health and we can choose not to be negligent ourselves by sticking to stricter rules than the government mandates. But I realise that senior management are often (a) focused on the bottom line and (b) personality types with high levels of conformism in their makeup, and therefore disinclined to do anything they aren't ordered to do.

There are additional complications. The company spent the whole summer and autumn engaged in a battle for hearts and minds to get people to get used to being in the office again. I thought that was a tactical mistake at the time, but hindsight is irrelevant — they did it. Telling people at this point to go back to WFH would wind all that back to square 1.

Then you have the fact that they measure employee COVID rate, and it’s pretty damned low, to be honest. The offices themselves are big, ventilated places, desk usage is low and people are doing regular LFTs to go in. So there is an attitude of, “the office seems to be safe until you can provide evidence otherwise”. There’s definitely wilful blindness in that, but you can also see where they’re coming from. In truth, it’s more of a “greater good” thing that means people should stay at home, but the company takes the (not unreasonable) perspective that greater good is the domain of governments, not corporations.

 

[elbows]

Maybe it was the Mail - I dunno, those right wing rags all look the same to me...

It was the Mail.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Just came up on the news, hardly surprising, but Omicron has arrived in the UK.

Covid: Two cases of new variant Omicron detected in UK

Two people in the UK have been found to be infected with the new Covid variant, Omicron, the health secretary says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[StoneRoad]

Just came up on the news, hardly surprising, but Omicron has arrived in the UK.

Covid: Two cases of new variant Omicron detected in UK

Two people in the UK have been found to be infected with the new Covid variant, Omicron, the health secretary says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah, saw that.
Also Covid: South Africa 'punished' for detecting new Omicron variant

as in complaints about the travel bans.

The case zero seems to have been detected in a specimen from early (8th) November.
So it is no surprise that this new variant has already escaped into the rest of the world.

 

[Steel Icarus]

No surprise tbh

 

[8ball]

Reinfection is one of the concerns about Omicron ( #409 ). So we should probably bring up again the fact the UK positive case figures only include individuals once, thus do not count reinfections, and that a long overdue change to the official definition so that such cases do count should probably happen. Whether it will, or how long it will take, I would not like to guess.

Absolutely.

As an aside, I would put good money down on Omicron already being here.

Edit: oops - not reading the thread properly

 

[elbows]

Yes its been a reasonable bet right since the start of the pandemic that by the time we detect something, the horse has already bolted.

Travel restrictions etc are still important though because even when they dont prevent things happening, they can buy a little time. We saw from analysis of initial wave and then the rise of various variants that the amount of seeding of a particular virus has quite an impact on spread timing and scale. At least for a little while, and then eventually some of that stuff doesnt offer any gains.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Downing Street press conference coming up today at 5pm, with Johnson, Whitty and Vallance.

 

[klang]

Downing Street press conference coming up today at 5pm, with Johnson, Whitty and Vallance.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Downing Street press conference coming up today at 5pm, with Johnson, Whitty and Vallance.

alas...

 

[Cloo]

I wonder if this will finally make them take the nuclear option and introduce * gasp * Plan B!!!! Aka what anyone who is considerate and able to do has been doing, and that others will not bother with even if it becomes The Law?

 

[Cloo]

In fact makes me wonder if they were saving Plan B for a variant so they could look like they were Doing Something without shutting anything down.

 

[elbows]

Well the whole plan A, plan B thing was designed as a holding pattern, building in as many opportunities to delay sensible action for as long as they could get away with.

I dont have any predictions about what they will announce today. It could just be an introduction to the new situation, or they could decide to actually do something.

I suppose I will predict that I will get frustrated if no details emerge about what date the people who have tested positives samples were actually taken. They usually prefer not to let that detail emerge quickly, as it would get in the way of making useless reassuring noises about how those people are isolating and contact tracing taking place. And the press often fail to ask.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Downing Street press conference coming up today at 5pm, with Johnson, Whitty and Vallance.

"an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing"

 

[existentialist]

The bit I don’t really have an answer to in BCP meetings is, “if the government says it’s okay to work in the office, who are we to say otherwise? Why are we doing something we’re not being explicitly told to?” If that’s the attitude at the top level, there’s not much anyone can really say in response without firm rules to fall back on.

At best, “guidance” to work from home is just the difference between being given a mandatory instruction to return to office and having soft pressure to do it.

And I think this was foreseen - not least on Urban - when the Chief Clown announced "freedom day" in July. The cunt.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Obsessed with "getting it into arms". Such a weird phrase

 

[Supine]

Anyone know what ‘tightening up mask wearing in shops and public transport’ means?