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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Brainaddict said:
On the question of whether people have enough information to decide about the risks of long covid, I would say that not only has it not been reported enough, but it has also frequently been reported in a way that doesn't help people understand the impact. So here's a post from a long covid fb group that just came up in my feed. I didn't have to go looking for this - it's a very common type of post in those groups - this is from a quite young-looking woman (in a public group and I don't think she'd mind it being reposted):

"I’m having a little pity party today. I am so sick of this **** of a virus and how it’s destroyed my life.
Went to the football on Tuesday night, was probably a bad idea and didn’t think through how far I would have to walk (cos of the crowds) and stand. Been basically bed/ sofa / house ridden since. Was supposed to be going to Leeds Fest today. At 6am the crashing realisation that I can’t physically manage going hit me, and that it was a stupid idea in the first place as even on a good day I wouldn’t be able to walk that distance, manage the porta loos or the late night.
I just want to be able to do the things I used to do. Covid has taken everything from me, my job, my career, my social life and my health.
Feel like I have let my husband down as I can’t go with him (other people are going so he’ll still go) and that everyone is going to have an amazing day whilst I spend yet another day trapped in the house"

So you could just hope that vaccination reduces the chances of this happening to you. Fingers crossed, right?

Anyway, the point has been made. I'll leave it there.
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This is just anecdata that is not really useful in making an informed decision. It's like deciding whether or not to try homeopathy based on comments on a group of people who feel that homeopathy cured their illness. Or deciding whether to get vaccinated by looking at a facebook group for people who have had severe adverse reactions to vaccination.

This is not me saying that there is no evidence that long covid is a significant problem, I am just saying that it seems very difficult to judge what the actual risk is, at the moment.
 
teuchter said:
This is just anecdata that is not really useful in making an informed decision. It's like deciding whether or not to try homeopathy based on comments on a group of people who feel that homeopathy cured their illness. Or deciding whether to get vaccinated by looking at a facebook group for people who have had severe adverse reactions to vaccination.

This is not me saying that there is no evidence that long covid is a significant problem, I am just saying that it seems very difficult to judge what the actual risk is, at the moment.
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Yes, it is. On this point we are in agreement.
 
Elpenor said:
By that logic it’s best to crash your car on a weekday before A&E gets busy in the weekend. When actually it’s better still to take measures to not crash it at all
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This might actually be a reasonable approach to take, though, if you think that regardless of the measures you take, the lack of general control over road safety means you will definitely have a crash anyway eventually and if having regular small crashes would help mitigate the effect.
 
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Life goes on and the last thing I want is to restrict my kids from living theirs, but I have to admit my son having his first girlfriend and consequently going out to Maccies, on buses, and to an actual gig tonight makes me quite anxious that at some point he'll bring Covid back with him. He won't have a jab, doesn't believe masks do anything and Mrs SI is reluctant to insist on him getting jabbed. His girlfriend's mum has told her she wont let her have one.
 
Don't know how common this is but my local council has decided to have some kind of festival this weekend with the town centre full of food tents, rides and so on and a nice big stage set up. I know it is outside but if this is common across the country it is going to be an issue right?
 
The view from overseas:

Such is the strange new phase of Britain’s pandemic: The public has moved on, even if the virus has not. Given that Britain has been at the vanguard of so many previous coronavirus developments — from incubating variants to rolling out vaccines — experts say this could be a glimpse into the future for other countries.

“We don’t seem to care that we have these really high infection rates,” said Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London who has been leading a major study of Covid-19 symptoms. “It looks like we’re just accepting it now — that this is the price of freedom.”

www.nytimes.com

Britons, Unfazed by High Covid Rates, Weigh Their ‘Price of Freedom’

Britain is reporting more than 30,000 new coronavirus cases a day, but the public seems to have moved on. Experts say this could be a glimpse into the future for other countries.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
S☼I said:
Life goes on and the last thing I want is to restrict my kids from living theirs, but I have to admit my son having his first girlfriend and consequently going out to Maccies, on buses, and to an actual gig tonight makes me quite anxious that at some point he'll bring Covid back with him. He won't have a jab, doesn't believe masks do anything and Mrs SI is reluctant to insist on him getting jabbed. His girlfriend's mum has told her she wont let her have one.
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That would worry/scare the 5h1t out of me ...
Sorry @S Catsbum - your son & his girlfriend's (mum) are being incredibly selfish (IMO).

Apart from the direct risk of covid itself to you (death & long covid) there is also the risk involved with the pool of potential variants mutating happily in infections of the unvaccinated ...

There's a guy in my local area who can't be vaccinated - he had neuropathy in his shoulder / arm from a jab years ago - and he's not willing to risk that again. When I see him, I wear a mask - a high quality one - and keep a good three meters away ... which he really appreciates ...
 
kabbes said:
“doesn't believe masks do anything”

Do you know where this belief comes from? If you think about it, this kind of thing is an odd thing to have “belief” about. It’s like having belief against germ theory or antibiotics.
Click to expand...

So, why do we see the characters in M*A*S*H wearing them to operate, even in field situations ?

Maybe a demonstration of the principles of water filtration would demonstrate the theory ...
 
Yossarian said:
The view from overseas:

Such is the strange new phase of Britain’s pandemic: The public has moved on, even if the virus has not. Given that Britain has been at the vanguard of so many previous coronavirus developments — from incubating variants to rolling out vaccines — experts say this could be a glimpse into the future for other countries.

“We don’t seem to care that we have these really high infection rates,” said Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London who has been leading a major study of Covid-19 symptoms. “It looks like we’re just accepting it now — that this is the price of freedom.”

www.nytimes.com

Britons, Unfazed by High Covid Rates, Weigh Their ‘Price of Freedom’

Britain is reporting more than 30,000 new coronavirus cases a day, but the public seems to have moved on. Experts say this could be a glimpse into the future for other countries.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...

That article is missing key info such as the level of contacts these days compared to pre-pandemic (it has not returned to anything like normal). Nor are the differences in returns to normal behaviour between different age groups looked at. And although government messaging i mentioned, the role of that and the medias mood music is not looked at properly.

Months ago Spector did his bit to encourage the current situation, with his ill advised talk about how this wave would only be 'a ripple' and that we shouldnt worry about every variant. So although he is sometimes talking more sense these days, I am wary of quotes from him.
 
kabbes said:
“doesn't believe masks do anything”

Do you know where this belief comes from? If you think about it, this kind of thing is an odd thing to have “belief” about. It’s like having belief against germ theory or antibiotics.
Click to expand...
Sigh. The internet, of course. I mean he's taken a mask with him today but I'd bet my dog(s) and lot he won't wear it anywhere that doesn't insist on it. Mrs SI has said "leave it to me" to persuade him to get vaccinated, but it's one thing letting him have an untidy room for several years, quite another to get a potentially life-saving injection. Time is of the essence surely
 
kabbes said:
“doesn't believe masks do anything”

Do you know where this belief comes from? If you think about it, this kind of thing is an odd thing to have “belief” about. It’s like having belief against germ theory or antibiotics.
Click to expand...

It comes from being a selfish cunt who can't be bothered to wear a mask. If you're that bothered about evidence the internet will gladly spoonfeed you some 'information' that supports your belief that you're actually not a selfish cunt, you're just ahead of the curve. But most people I suspect don't even bother with that. You can believe anything you like, or nothing at all.
 
kabbes said:
Several people I spoke to said that they thought it was better to get infected now whilst their vaccine was still fully effective. That way, they will almost certainly be fine and they can gain additional, or “top-up” immunity. So long as they keep getting reinfected whilst their immunity is strong, they’ll continue to be almost certainly okay.
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Exposure to antigen via vaccine is always a better option than by exposure to live virus. It is safer, doesn't carry the risk of long covid and, at least as importantly, presents zero onward transmission risk.

From the vaccines/treatment thread, as they say here - don't try this at home.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org www.sciencemag.org
 
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S☼I said:
"Whatever the cause though, experts have been clear we should expect to be repeatedly infected over our lifetimes."
- Trick Niggle, from
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid infection protection waning in double jabbed

Experts say it is to be expected and boosters may be needed, at least for some people, ahead of winter.
www.bbc.co.uk

Makes me wonder what the fucking point of trying or worrying is :(
Click to expand...

I might invent an expert claim that "if you listen to Nick Triggle, you can expect to be infected more often than most".

I expect to be infected on some occasions during my life, but I'd rather wait till (a) treatments have improved, (b) I've lost some weight, and (c) we are beyond the acute pandemic phase.
 
SpookyFrank said:
It comes from being a selfish cunt who can't be bothered to wear a mask. If you're that bothered about evidence the internet will gladly spoonfeed you some 'information' that supports your belief that you're actually not a selfish cunt, you're just ahead of the curve. But most people I suspect don't even bother with that. You can believe anything you like, or nothing at all.
Click to expand...

While the behaviour is ultimately selfish, I believe a better way to identify the cause is fear, fear of the virus and the unknown and the lack of control we have over it: if one wears a mask one is implicitly acknowledging all the time, on one’s face, that there is something to fear, and even that the little things we can do to mitigate it are not going to be 100% effective, so one is doing what what can and living with the fear. People’s unconsciousnesses don’t like living with fear, so to avoid the cognitive dissonance associated with deciding (pretending) there is nothing to fear yet taking active steps to mitigate that ‘nothing’ (masks, vaccines, etc) one has to discard the latter. And be angry with anyone who doesn’t, as they are reminding you there is something to fear.

Fear is very powerful and subtly insidious.
 
S☼I said:
Sigh. The internet, of course. I mean he's taken a mask with him today but I'd bet my dog(s) and lot he won't wear it anywhere that doesn't insist on it. Mrs SI has said "leave it to me" to persuade him to get vaccinated, but it's one thing letting him have an untidy room for several years, quite another to get a potentially life-saving injection. Time is of the essence surely
Click to expand...

Used to be that one of 2 things happened either (inevitably and completely naturally) your kid became a self obsessed pain in the arse and basically took the piss, so you kicked him her out or your kid had enough of his/her parents controlling them and fucked off of their own accord.

There has been a massive power shift in the last 30 years that results in a lot less of either these scenarios being played out and you have 30 year old kids all over the place
 
_Russ_ said:
Used to be that one of 2 things happened either (inevitably and completely naturally) your kid became a self obsessed pain in the arse and basically took the piss, so you kicked him her out or your kid had enough of his/her parents controlling them and fucked off of their own accord.

There has been a massive power shift in the last 30 years that results in a lot less of either these scenarios being played out and you have 30 year old kids all over the place
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with economics then?
 
I'm sure Economics played a part but also expectations are much higher, I lived in rented accommodation up to my 40s, and also didnt have a vehicle till I was mid 30's this seemed quite normal at the time
I left home at 17 which also seemed fairly normal

Society has changed.
 
_Russ_ said:
I'm sure Economics played a part but also expectations are much higher, I lived in rented accommodation up to my 40s, and also didnt have a vehicle till I was mid 30's this seemed quite normal at the time
I left home at 17 which also seemed fairly normal

Society has changed.
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Don't really understand this post, given that the current generation are even more likely to be in rented accommodation into middle age. The problem is not overgrown spoiled kids not wanting to fly the nest, it's the fact that it's harder and harder to afford to do so given the cost of rent and mortagages.
 
Todays 30 year olds were coming of age when we were reading about how their generation were going to be fucked over by austerity, ludicrous house prices etc.

Circumstances change, there is no permanent version of what normal is, and changes to multi-generation household norms reflect harsh economic realities. The 30 year olds affected arent children, their independence has been curtailed by circumstance beyond their control. I mourn the loss of social mobility too, the window of opportunity has been bricked over and writing people off as children just invites the opposite retort of 'so say the old farts who had it different'.
 
prunus said:
While the behaviour is ultimately selfish, I believe a better way to identify the cause is fear, fear of the virus and the unknown and the lack of control we have over it: if one wears a mask one is implicitly acknowledging all the time, on one’s face, that there is something to fear, and even that the little things we can do to mitigate it are not going to be 100% effective, so one is doing what what can and living with the fear. People’s unconsciousnesses don’t like living with fear, so to avoid the cognitive dissonance associated with deciding (pretending) there is nothing to fear yet taking active steps to mitigate that ‘nothing’ (masks, vaccines, etc) one has to discard the latter. And be angry with anyone who doesn’t, as they are reminding you there is something to fear.

Fear is very powerful and subtly insidious.
Click to expand...
Thank you. That makes sense of behaviour I haven't been able to understand in a way that doesn't write people off as just cunts.
 
Mrs SI just stopped at some Peterborough services. Place was full of grubby twenty somethings just having been to Leeds or Reading. Not one mask worn, she said. She sat in the car and ate her Maccies. Cannot imagine being in a large crowd of people from all over the country at the moment. Is it just me? Am I over cautious? Or is it, as I've always suspected, that it's the world that's mad and not me?
 
S☼I said:
Mrs SI just stopped at some Peterborough services. Place was full of grubby twenty somethings just having been to Leeds or Reading. Not one mask worn, she said. She sat in the car and ate her Maccies. Cannot imagine being in a large crowd of people from all over the country at the moment. Is it just me? Am I over cautious? Or is it, as I've always suspected, that it's the world that's mad and not me?
Click to expand...

It's not just you.
 
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