elbows
Well-Known Member
Its more complicated than that.I'm beginning to get might confused about the effectiveness of vaccines now..
If some of the vaccines are only 50% effective that isn't great progress is it?
Firstly the effectiveness against infection is one thing, but there are also the other key numbers such as effectiveness against hospitalisation and death. Those have been higher than effectiveness against infection in studies all the way along.
Secondly it an be a bit tricky to unpick multiple factors, for example how much of a decline is due to the Delta variant and how much is due to effects of vaccination waning over time. And there may be notable differences in that picture between nations where some nations used a different dosing schedule between first and second doses.
Another phenomenon that may also be part of the picture is that a lot of the real world studies of vaccines over time have limitations imposed on them by the epidemic circumstances that are in play during the study period. I believe it was expected that there might be a decrease in some of the estimates once vaccinated populations impacts could be measured under very difficult circumstances, and this Delta wave is the first to fully offer that opportunity. If the proof of the pudding is in the eating then this present phase is puddingfest 2021 as far as vaccines go.
I have been complaining for most of this year that the approach the UK has gone for in 2021 is bloody stupid and asks vaccines to carry more pandemic weight than it is sensible to ask of them. But for a while the estimated effectiveness against infection was so high that I was at least ready to entertain the possibility that the government might get away with their chosen approach. I still have to entertain that possibility even though those the estimates you mention have now fallen very far below the level where some of the most simplistic notions about 'herd immunity' seemed like a plausible goal to aim for. But the picture is complicated and messy and I havent seen modelling of what could happen next once the latest vaccine effectiveness estimates are taken into account.
And there are other complications too for the months ahead. There is the issue of waning immunity and booster shots. Israel have drawn a gloomy conclusion about that and are pressing on with boosters now, but their data is from their circumstances where they only had the short gap between the first two doses. The UK is likely to provide a missing piece of that picture by studying waning immunity in a country where many people had a much longer gap between first and second jabs, and indeed there seems to be a new antibody testing programme going live here which may be designed to help with those questions and some other.
And this brings me to the final complication I shall mention now. Time and time again we have seen studies where the immunity afforded to many people who have been infected and vaccinated seems notably better than for those who have been vaccinated but not infected. It is possible that vaccination regimes over time might be able to get closer to the protection offered by infection plus vaccination, especially if the nature of vaccines themselves is altered. But without such triumphs on the near horizon, in some ways the infected plus vaccinated route is music to the ears of the UK establishment, since it provides a new justification for their original instincts, for plans and priorities that see no problem in letting millions of people get infected, just so long as the hospital burden doesnt become too great.