Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[redsquirrel]

Again that is simply not true. Sure the greater infectiousness of delta means that masks, ventilation, social distancing etc do not cut infections to the same extent as before but they still do help. It is absolutely not true that it is the vaccine or nothing, and the message that vaccines are "all we have" is an anti-social, attack on the public health approaches.

One of the reasons why cases have not been as high as was expected was precisely because people have not thrown all precautions out the window - that they are remaining masked up, are taking care, are working from home.

 

[teuchter]

This idea that Delta is likely to transmit via fleeting outdoors or time-separated contact - has that actually been confirmed anywhere other than what I think was originally an Australian report?

 

[_Russ_]

I dunno, as far as I can see beyond using studies in aerosol/droplet dynamics and combining that with extrapolated data on the variants infectiousness, all that you could really do would be to take the word of infected subjects as to their movements in the presumed times of infection???
Doesn't seem like an easy one to answer

 

[existentialist]

I dunno, as far as I can see beyond using studies in aerosol/droplet dynamics and combining that with extrapolated data on the variants infectiousness, all that you could really do would be to take the word of infected subjects as to their movements in the presumed times of infection???
Doesn't seem like an easy one to answer

There are so many factors and variables that it is always going to be an inexact science.

 

[two sheds]

true, but you'd think they could study the number of droplets/individual viruses dispersed under different but controlled conditions.

 

[elbows]

true, but you'd think they could study the number of droplets/individual viruses dispersed under different but controlled conditions.

A July SAGE meeting mentions the following:

A Human Challenge Study has taken place in which young healthy volunteers were administered a controlled low dose of SARS-CoV-2. An acceptable infection rate was achieved, symptoms were mild, and the quarantine phase of the study was safely completed. This section of the study will reveal kinetics of viral shedding, particularly early after infection, and allow assessments of lateral flow tests. Environmental and air samples were used to monitor emissions to the environment. The volunteers will continue to be monitored. The full study completes by the end of 2022.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1010057/SAGE_94_minutes.pdf

 

[elbows]

Although I should also have said that I doubt they used the Delta variant in that study.

A lot of figures from the 'what we think we now know' department are also out of date in that they came from periods before Delta, often during periods where the number of infections wasnt that high, further weakening the conclusions. For example a bunch of vaccine effect estimates were quite recently still pre-Delta, and authorities also expected some of the figures to become less rosy once evidence came in from a period of high levels of infection.

 

[two sheds]

I'm surprised they actually infected people in that - you'd imagine that people could breathe out and then mechanically take a sample with a mouth-sized detector 1-m away to check the viral load.

eta: assuming you can count the little fuckers

 

[Sunray]

I see NZ is panicking with their few cases as its the delta variant and they went all over the country into popular spots for people who live there. One of the infected is a vaccinated nurse.
I suspect a lot will be outdoor infection as its an outdoorsy place. Highlights how transmissible it is compared to the other variants.

 

[Elpenor]

I see NZ is panicking with their few cases as its the delta variant and they went all over the country into popular spots for people who live there. One of the infected is a vaccinated nurse.
I suspect a lot will be outdoor infection as its an outdoorsy place. Highlights how transmissible it is compared to the other variants.

Not sure where it's been detected but fairly full stadiums at the 2 New Zealand vs Australia rugby matches and no masks in the crowd.

 

[Storm Fox]

Not sure where it's been detected but fairly full stadiums at the 2 New Zealand vs Australia rugby matches and no masks in the crowd.

Up to now, they've had almost no community cases, They are going into a three day lockdown as they have community cases of Delta.
There are a lot of updates here: New Zealand
Not looking great

Sneering from a county that has 1000's of deaths to a country that has very very few.
Overseas media surprised by NZ's lockdown after 'single case' in this case fuck CNN.

 

[elbows]

Yeah the situation in Australia and New Zealand does present opportunities to spot the propaganda in UK reporting, and I expect that is repeated in many other countries that have been embarrassed by those who took a zero covid approach.

For example the BBC had the nerve to write this in a recent article about Australia:

Case numbers and deaths in the Australian state remain relatively low compared to some of the world's worst outbreaks, including in the US and UK.

(from Australia: New South Wales 'in worst ever Covid situation' )

On the one hand it is good that they acknowledged we had one of the worlds worst outbreaks. But the phrase 'relatively low' is quite the fucking bullshit understatement.

For example I believe there have been at least 26 days in this pandemic where the UK recorded more deaths on each of those single days than Australia has experienced in total in the entire pandemic so far.

 

[StoneRoad]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but I saw a reference (Guardian, I think) to Moderna aka spikevac (?) being cleared for administration down to 12 year olds. Hopefully it is also more "tuned" to Delta. Just need JCVI to agree.

But I think there is not quite enough time for two jabs at 4 weeks separation to get enough kids jabbed before school & the winter flu season both get started.

Also hoping that the promised boosters for the elderly / more vulnerable will soon be available - ditto flu jabs.
Must check with my local GP.

 

[elbows]

In regars the shit propaganda that is hurled at New Zealand by nations with disgusting pandemic records, this Guardian article does a fairly good job of demolishing the shit.

Ardern’s Covid lockdown finds favour as New Zealand watches Sydney’s Delta disaster

Asked what she would say to people who questioned the need for a level 4 lockdown, the prime minister responded with one word: ‘Australia’

www.theguardian.com

 

[elbows]

Moderna aka spikevac (?)

Yeah most of them have stupid brand names these days. Moderna is Spikevax, Pfizer is Comirnaty and OxfordAZ is Vaxzevria. Compared to the other two the Moderna choice of brand isnt bad. And some other brand names are sometimes used for regions other than Europe.

I am bitter that the branding opportunity 'Spike Milligram' has not been seized upon, especially if we end up walking backwards for Christmas.

 

[elbows]

I dont have so much to say when nobody elese has so much to say. And I've rather overdone the ranting over the last 18 months.

But here are some things I would normally have more to say about.

 

[2hats]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but I saw a reference (Guardian, I think) to Moderna aka spikevac (?) being cleared for administration down to 12 year olds. Hopefully it is also more "tuned" to Delta. Just need JCVI to agree

Moderna are still testing a delta specific booster (mRNA-1273.617) and a multivalent (mRNA-1273.213; original WT plus delta), at standard and lower doses, so probably wouldn't be available for some months. They might not even get approval for such use; re-exposure to early type spike booster after several months appears to be sufficient to build breadth and potency to a wide range of variants (post #352). Third dose 'boosters' in US, from 20 September, will still be based on early type.

But I think there is not quite enough time for two jabs at 4 weeks separation to get enough kids jabbed before school & the winter flu season both get started.

Ideally dosing interval would be much greater than that. Lower dosage and even single shots could be considered (particularly for prior infection). Protein subunit and inactivated, which should be available soon, might also prove more optimal for younger cohorts.

Yeah most of them have stupid brand names these days. Moderna is Spikevax, Pfizer is Comirnaty and OxfordAZ is Vaxzevria. Compared to the other two the Moderna choice of brand isnt bad. And some other brand names are sometimes used for regions other than Europe.

mRNA-1273, Spikevax also known commercially as Elasomeran in some markets.

 

[elbows]

Hospital admissions are still fluctuating around levels where as a result the number of people in hospital beds and mechanical ventilation beds is going up rather than down.

 

[zahir]

Apparently we need to learn to manage unhelpful thoughts.

 

[zahir]

Deepti Gurdasani isn't impressed.

 

[two sheds]

Apparently we need to learn to manage unhelpful thoughts.

Tip 04 - don't breathe in

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Apparently we need to learn to manage unhelpful thoughts.

They've done this before. It really epitomises "mindfulness culture" - feeling bad? There's nothing actually wrong with the situation, you're just weak and/or shit, but here are some self-help tips about that. No there is no mental health system any more.

Maybe you could inhale a Little Book Of Calm.

 

[BCBlues]

Tip 04 - don't breathe in

Tip 05 - Dont breathe out

 

[kabbes]

They've done this before. It really epitomises "mindfulness culture" - feeling bad? There's nothing actually wrong with the situation, you're just weak and/or shit, but here are some self-help tips about that. No there is no mental health system any more.

Maybe you could inhale a Little Book Of Calm.

See also: the replacement of welfare with well-being

 

[pug]

I love the way they call it 'going back to normal'.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's very telling how it is not phrased as "worried? Here are some reasons you shouldn't be worried" but rather as "worried? Here are some ways to get over your irrational feelings".

 

[BillRiver]

A local to me "LGBTQI+ mental health" group posted similar nonsense on Instagram a couple of weeks ago.

When I politely commented, as a queer person with a diagnosis of severe & enduring mental illness, that this felt to me like gaslighting, and pointed out how high the R-rate was in our area that day, they told me my response was unhelpful and asked me to refrain from commenting any further.

It's the only comment I've ever made on their page.

They are the only group that I know of in my area for LGBTQI+ people in the psychiatric system.

 

[elbows]

I dont think they've got a cure for how I feel when I look at English hospital admission/diagnoses by age group. Older age groups are making up an increasing percentage of admissions.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

A local to me "LGBTQI+ mental health" group posted similar nonsense on Instagram a couple of weeks ago.

When I politely commented, as a queer person with a diagnosis of severe & enduring mental illness, that this felt to me like gaslighting, and pointed out how high the R-rate was in our area that day, they told me my response was unhelpful and asked me to refrain from commenting any further.

It's the only comment I've ever made on their page.

They are the only group that I know of in my area for LGBTQI+ people in the psychiatric system.

I hesitate to use the term "gaslighting" these days because it does get overused, but telling people that their perception of the facts is just wrong and their reaction is only because they're looking at things the wrong way surely fits.

You get more attention to your POV if you straight out deny vaccines work or covid exists. People queue up with factual evidence then.

 

[BillRiver]

I hesitate to use the term "gaslighting" these days because it does get overused, but telling people that their perception of the facts is just wrong and their reaction is only because they're looking at things the wrong way surely fits.

You get more attention to your POV if you straight out deny vaccines work or covid exists. People queue up with factual evidence then.

Yes I think it's the first and only time I have ever used the term, and even then I didn't straight out say it was gaslighting - I said it felt a bit like gaslighting. Because it did. But hey, I'm obviously the wrong kinda crazy queer for them! They seem more focused on "mental health and wellbeing" than actual mad people, anyway, but still it hurt for a little while when it happened. Disappointing.