What about the large numbers of people not getting jabbed? I have no agenda with this question. Waiting a few months would have been my idea too, I don't want a forever limited life but numbers of non vaxxers in my area are high.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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2hats
Dust.
Reports from Israel suggest negotiations are underway to transfer around 1 million unused doses of Pfizer to the UK within the next week as their current stock would expire before a second dose could be administered. In return the UK would forward to Israel an equivalent number of doses from their upcoming shipments from Pfizer.
www.mako.co.il
Failing that they would seek an extension of validity from the manufacturer.
N12 - מגעים מתקדמים בין ישראל לבריטניה על חילופי חיסונים
במשרד הבריאות חוששים מאובדן של מאות אלפי מנות וחשבו על פתרון יצירתי • בריטניה עשויה לקבל מיליון חיסונים כבר בשבוע הבא
www.mako.co.il
Supine
Newt Member
Reports from Israel suggest negotiations are underway to transfer around 1 million unused doses of Pfizer to the UK within the next week as their current stock would expire before a second dose could be administered. In return the UK would forward to Israel an equivalent number of doses from their upcoming shipments from Pfizer.
Failing that they would seek an extension of validity from the manufacturer.N12 - מגעים מתקדמים בין ישראל לבריטניה על חילופי חיסונים
במשרד הבריאות חוששים מאובדן של מאות אלפי מנות וחשבו על פתרון יצירתי • בריטניה עשויה לקבל מיליון חיסונים כבר בשבוע הבא
is this the same batch the Palestinians turned down because it was being offered but about to expire?
2hats
Dust.
Not clear. Supposedly these 'expire' 30 July. Of course, if Pfizer can validate that they can be used for an extended period...
2hats
Dust.
Proposed timetable for autumn booster (third) doses and influenza vaccinations floated by the JCVI.
Supine
Newt Member
The first batches will have been put on stability studies. I’m not sure what end time point they will have used, but it will be longer than the existing expiry date printed on the batches.
If arsed I could have a look at the AZ submission to EU for product approval. It should be in there. I’ve not seen any info for pfizer though, and that is a very different product with respect to stability.
Proposed timetable for autumn booster (third) doses and influenza vaccinations floated by the JCVI.
That's interesting. So they're not suggesting going by dates of first and second jabs?
ska invita
back on the other side
Surely Delta will rip through Europe and the US soon too?
prunus
Tick tock.
Yup. The simple fact is that we (and most of the world) are loosening the restrictions from one pandemic, just as another one that actually requires tighter restrictions than the first did than the first sweeps across us.
The plan, if there is one, can only be to hope like hell that vaccination can save us. It’s still not nearly clear from the guinea pig (us) that it is going to be able to, at least in terms of severe disruption to hospitals etc.
I’ve been expecting for a while now the messaging to change to “don’t worry [if you’ve been vaccinated and] test positive, don’t go to hospital, stay at home, you’ll be fine [and if you die, well at least you won’t have clogged up the nhs]”
Also I have no conception what the ‘plan’ regarding this new pandemic is with regards to the vast swathes of the developing world where vaccination simply isn’t going to be at a level to even possibly be a bulwark.
I’m veering towards the pessimistic
ska invita
back on the other side
as i said on the schools thread, the Javid era plan seems to be herd immunity for kids, vaccine immunity for adults, tough shit for anyone who dies/gets seriously illYup. The simple fact is that we (and most of the world) are loosening the restrictions from one pandemic, just as another one that actually requires tighter restrictions than the first did than the first sweeps across us.
The plan, if there is one, can only be to hope like hell that vaccination can save us. It’s still not nearly clear from the guinea pig (us) that it is going to be able to, at least in terms of severe disruption to hospitals etc.
I’ve been expecting for a while now the messaging to change to “don’t worry [if you’ve been vaccinated and] test positive, don’t go to hospital, stay at home, you’ll be fine [and if you die, well at least you won’t have clogged up the nhs]”
Also I have no conception what the ‘plan’ regarding this new pandemic is with regards to the vast swathes of the developing world where vaccination simply isn’t going to be at a level to even possibly be a bulwark.
I’m veering towards the pessimistic
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Yeah and I think the yanks are more complacent than us about it.
ska invita
back on the other side
the one factor that might slow it is schools will break up soon, so they might miss that cauldron phase...but seems inevitable to me...certainly by September (only a couple of months away).
Looking at that graph Ed posted, looks like US and EU figures ever so slightly going up too
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
It looks to me like a repeat of last year but a bit different due to vaccines. Open up in the summer and then restrictions again in autumn once the weather turns and numbers really go up. I don't expect there will be another lockdown though.
Are there any figures showing how high the numbers/percentages are, for people who've been double jabbed but still get re-infected?? 
I'm aware that how long it is since their second jab before infection comes, must be one of the relevant factors.
It's just that the story at the weekend about Andrew Marr getting Covid again** caught my attention
**ETA : After having been double-jabbed, but I have no idea of timings on that.
I'm aware that how long it is since their second jab before infection comes, must be one of the relevant factors.
It's just that the story at the weekend about Andrew Marr getting Covid again** caught my attention
**ETA : After having been double-jabbed, but I have no idea of timings on that.
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Anju
Well-Known Member
Another reason we should be trying to keep infections down. Potentially huge numbers of people with covid induced immune system issues, assuming I have understood the article.
www.healio.com
Data support COVID-19 as autoimmunity trigger in patients without preexisting IMIDs
Emerging data are beginning to show that COVID-19 can induce autoimmunity in patients without preexisting immune-mediated inflammatory diseases, with consequences that are yet unknown, according to a speaker at the 2021 Interdisciplinary Autoimmune Summit. “This raises several questions. Will...
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
You're tilting at a bit of a windmill here, and it isn't a good look. Elbows has a monumental track record of accurate, carefully-researched posts, and you're not going to get ANY traction by simply playing semantic games and sniping at him.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Many younger adults won't have even been offered their second dose by September.Proposed timetable for autumn booster (third) doses and influenza vaccinations floated by the JCVI.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Pfizer gives you 80-90% protection against reinfection, two weeks after the second dose. AZ gives 60-70% according to this article: The Covid Delta variant: how effective are the vaccines?Are there any figures showing how high the numbers/percentages are, for people who've been double jabbed but still get re-infected??
I'm aware that how long it is since their second jab before infection comes, must be one of the relevant factors.
It's just that the story at the weekend about Andrew Marr getting Covid again** caught my attention
**ETA : After having been double-jabbed, but I have no idea of timings on that.
Obviously 30% of a big number is still a big number, which is one explanation for case numbers continuing to rise. (The other reason being that most under 40s haven't had two jabs yet so they don't have strong protection.)
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
These numbers aren't anything to do with "re-infection".
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
The question I was answering was about Andrew Marr who had a symptomatic infection. Ok, asymptomatic infection exists as well but it doesn't put anyone in hospital and it's not as common as people think.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
They are to do with infection. Reinfection is a subset of infection.
If you're being pedantic then, the chances of reinfection should logically be lower for anyone who has both acquired immunity and a vaccine. So those numbers represent a lower bound.
Just replace 60-70% with at least 60-70% and you're good to go.
2hats
Dust.
Yes, that article covers that; there's no need for a third dose for them to safeguard healthcare provision over the winter.
No it doesn't. The figures are for a (sub-)population, not an individual, as has been mentioned repeatedly.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Please elaborate. Population statistics should apply to the average individual too?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It's not pedantic to point out you are providing numbers that are for something other than what you said they were. If it needs to say "at least" then it's your job to write that, not the reader's to insert it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Unclear which countries you are suggesting that timetable for. Because as far as the UK goes the explosive growth in cases is happening now, no need to wait for autumn.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Good luck identifying the average individual.
2hats
Dust.
But not any actual individual.
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