Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[teuchter]

I saw there is some information coming out from Israel, not published yet, the Pfizer vaccine stops transmission and stop you from getting covid-19. This is the last unanswered question. The fewer people getting Covid-19 the less chance of mutations arising.

Israeli Study Suggests Pfizer Vaccine Reduces Covid-19 Transmission

The Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine can reduce the transmission of Covid-19, said a study published by Israel’s largest coronavirus testing lab on Monday. While vaccinated individuals may still test positive for the virus, they have smaller amounts of it in the body, the study published by the MyHerita

www.wsj.com

There were a lot of people out walking and cycling today it being so warm.

Easter feels like a long time away to go outdoors with friends.

It does not say that it stops transmission.

 

[Mation]

Sounds like total bullshit to me, and people shouldn't be spreading rumours like that. Nobody gets asked their occupation. We have 3 minute slots for each patient, only just enough time to check ID and get through the essential medical questions.

No one should get asked their occupation. But remember that bias and prejudices exist in individuals, and that sometimes comes out where it shouldn't, according to the official procedure.

Not saying that's the case here, as I have no idea. However, much of the discrimination people face can often be explained away by genuinely nice people looking at what official procedures should be, and not considering that their colleague, who is perfectly lovely to them, might behave differently to other people.

A flag, not an accusation.

 

[Sunray]

It does not say that it stops transmission.

Fixed.

 

[elbows]

Dear oh dear.

Leon boss warns longer lockdown 'will cost lives'

John Vincent says extending lockdowns, even by a number of weeks, "matters hugely".

www.bbc.co.uk

Extending lockdowns even by a matter of weeks will "cost lives", the co-founder of fast-food chain Leon has said.

John Vincent said businesses were "at the heart of a functioning and healthy society" and were losing money that should be going to their employees and the government through taxes.

Oh my...

He said there had been a "pantomime of scientists against business" during the pandemic - "as if there isn't one giant shared agenda" - and the latter were "positioned as the uncompassionate ones".

If you dont want to be labelled as uncompassionate then a first step would be to get a bloody clue about controlling epidemics and pandemics. Keep coming out with stuff that focusses only on economic damage and self-interest, and trying to dismiss inconvenient scientific and public health truths to justify that, puts you on the side of the pandemic shitheads. There is no way round that, and even when scientists and politicians try to balance economics with public health, there is still no way round that.

But the length of lockdowns "matters hugely", he said, adding that the government had not produced a "holistic cost-benefit analysis".

"Therefore, how can we be making this decision about the impacts on the young today and for their futures? How can we make (decisions about) the impacts of the huge economic destruction which is costing lives? When we lose our economy we lose lives," he said.

"How can we be saying, glibly, 'it doesn't matter if lockdown carries on for a few weeks or months longer than necessary' without the analysis? I wouldn't launch a chicken wrap without analysis."

Be careful what you wish for, maybe the government can analyse your business and figure out if more lives are being saved by denying people your fast food.

There are real points to be made on this side of the balancing equation, but when cunts make them like this I dont think its going to help their cause, other public health aspects more directly related to the virus will always trump this shit unless the number of cases falls below a fairly low threshold. If the virus had a different degree of transmissibility, a different level of deadliness, a different ability to hospitalise people, then the balance would more easily go down the usual route of pandering to business shitheads who take a rigged game for granted. Can't rig the game during the acute phases of a bad pandemic, no matter how loudly they shriek. Opportunities to do so once more will return eventually, its only a matter of time, but in the meantime the powerful of business street clearly want to throw their weight around to force a reckless timescale.

 

[elbows]

I already groaned some days ago about how we cannot trust Johnson to throw words like 'irreversible' around responsibly, although a somewhat sensible interpretation of this sentiment was eventually on display. Anyway I noticed there was another quote in that same article which gets into that territory:

Prof Dame Angela McLean, deputy chief scientific adviser, told the Commons Science and Technology Committee earlier this week that each step of easing measures should be "irrevocable", adding "that means we have to be extremely careful before we add another unlocking".

"We want to understand the impact on each step before taking the next steps," she said, adding that this would require a "large gap" after children go back to school.

 

[hypernormalized]

The recent media releases regarding the plan being "you'll be allowed to sit down outside in a month" or whatever has I think become the final straw for a lot of people, my phone is lighting up with dinner / house parties in the coming weeks.

 

[StoneRoad]

Not for me - I'm waiting for my vaccination(s) to have built up enough immunity, and even then, I'm going to be excessively careful for months to come.

 

[Supine]

my phone is lighting up with dinner / house parties in the coming weeks.

I think that's probably a lie, but if not your friends are cunts.

 

[hypernormalized]

Not for me - I'm waiting for my vaccination(s) to have built up enough immunity, and even then, I'm going to be excessively careful for months to come.

All the best!

 

[elbows]

The recent media releases regarding the plan being "you'll be allowed to sit down outside in a month" or whatever has I think become the final straw for a lot of people, my phone is lighting up with dinner / house parties in the coming weeks.

We've been around the block in terms of predictions about civil unrest, non-compliance etc a number of times before. And we've heard last-straw drivel from pathetic little threats to public health such as your sort before. I expect there is less appetite to jump so readily towards such predictions since they failed to come true the first few times. Which is not to say I exclude such possibilities from being possible in future, but I certainly wouldnt use you as a quality barometer of such sentiments building in the broader population.

 

[hypernormalized]

We've been around the block in terms of predictions about civil unrest, non-compliance etc a number of times before. And we've heard last-straw drivel from pathetic little threats to public health such as your sort before. I expect there is less appetite to jump so readily towards such predictions since they failed to come true the first few times. Which is not to say I exclude such possibilities in future, but I certainly wouldnt use you as a quality barometer of such sentiments.

Fair enough, just reporting what I'm seeing.

 

[stdP]

Hopefully reopening school's and lifting lockdown will cheer everyone up though eh?

The government's been following the data, so teachers, support staff, children and everyone else mixing socially have all been vaccinated already (a month ago in fact, to allow immune response time to work) and re-opening the schools is perfectly safe - transmission of all variants is at effectively zero.

Right? Right?!

Certain ziplines would look pretty sweet wrapped around the neck of certain gelatinous cunts right now.

 

[hypernormalized]

The government's been following the data, so teachers, support staff, children and everyone else mixing socially have all been vaccinated already (a month ago in fact, to allow immune response time to work) and re-opening the schools is perfectly safe - transmission of all variants is at effectively zero.

Right? Right?!

Certain ziplines would look pretty sweet wrapped around the neck of certain gelatinous cunts right now.

I don't think it's clear that vaccinating teachers would result in a better outcome overall than vaccinating groups with a higher risk of severe outcomes.

It'd be better for teachers, sure.

It seems to me like one of those things where theoretically it's better (make pensioners isolate so that teachers are safer in school), but in practice maybe it ends up being a wash (for all of the reasons that have been given for not just letting the virus rip - the elderly can't or won't be isolated to that degree).

I do think that teachers (and anyone working in a high contact role) should be vaccinated ahead of the general population though.

 

[Sunray]

I’m very sick of trade bodies and CEO’s of companies telling the government what to do. Even sicker of having a spineless government that seems to listen

Three lockdowns and 115000 dead clearly tells us, all of them are wrong.
They need to shut the fuck up.

 

[editor]

The recent media releases regarding the plan being "you'll be allowed to sit down outside in a month" or whatever has I think become the final straw for a lot of people, my phone is lighting up with dinner / house parties in the coming weeks.

Brockwell park was so busy today with people enjoying beers with friends it looked pretty much like a big pub beer garden in places.

 

[MJ100]

Sorry, the last straw today, Elbows. I've been following this thread for a year now because you and other posters such as LynnDoyleCooper have given very informative replies to various questions, plenty of useful data etc. But lately I can't help but notice you're on the insult bus all the time. Just stop it. Please.

Calling someone a "pathetic little threat to public health" because they commented about something being the "last straw" for many people is just offensive and ignorant in equal measure. It shows that you really, really don't understand (or perhaps don't care about) the toll these lockdowns are taking on millions of people. Despite what you seem to think, Covid is NOT the only issue facing this country. I'm sure you know that really, but again, it's not showing through. I know that studying the epidemic is your area of expertise but the fact remains that there are innumerable other issues that lockdowns raise.

Whether or not that will cause more harm than good in the long run remains to be seen. I personally think that lockdowns will do more harm than good, certainly on a global scale, but of course I hope it isn't the case and I'm perfectly willing, in five or ten years, to stand corrected. But all you need to do is look at UN reports of x million kids entering food insecurity, or 200 million (I think?) people entering extreme poverty as a direct result of lockdowns to start having doubts. It's reasonable to have doubts, especially if you, your family or your friends are being impacted severely by the effects of lockdowns. Jumping directly to call someone a cunt because they have doubts about the cost-benefit analysis (which, incidentally, the fast food guy who I'd never heard of before is quite right about, since we the public have not seen any such thing from government) is just childish and stupid, and frankly from what I've seen of your level-headed analysis earlier in the pandemic, I'd expect better from you. I understand that you hate the government, which is reasonable, and you're no fan of big business, which is also reasonable, but when you start hurling insults around left right and centre, calling anyone who opposes or simply believes in the downsides of lockdown a "pandemic cunt" or a "lockdown shithead" then you start losing respect fast.

Standing by for the inevitable flaming and/or banning, but I had to make my point. I hope you can tone down the insulting of random posters and random members of the public and just stick to your useful and informative updates and data analysis.

 

[ddraig]

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Awesome?

 

[weepiper]

"joined 25 minutes ago"

 

[kabbes]

If we’re worried about the well being of children, there are ways of ensuring they have sufficient food that don’t involve increasing the spread of coronavirus once again just so that a fast food joint can make a tonne of profit out of a shit capitalist merry-go-round

 

[stdP]

But all you need to do is look at UN reports of x million kids entering food insecurity, or 200 million (I think?) people entering extreme poverty as a direct result of lockdowns to start having doubts.

I'm only coming at this from a UK perspective of course but I'm with kabbes on this one; it seems like a false equivalency to me. Ending the lockdown isn't miraculously going to get said kids out of food insecurity and there's many ways of feeding people outside of them going to school. So I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Even if by some miracle we could end all lockdowns tomorrow, it's going to take months for people to regain the confidence to start going out and spending money again, and that's only if they're in a position to afford it (and hundreds of thousands in the UK definitely aren't).

 

[MJ100]

I'm only coming at this from a UK perspective of course but I'm with kabbes on this one; it seems like a false equivalency to me. Ending the lockdown isn't miraculously going to get said kids out of food insecurity and there's many ways of feeding people outside of them going to school. So I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Even if by some miracle we could end all lockdowns tomorrow, it's going to take months for people to regain the confidence to start going out and spending money again, and that's only if they're in a position to afford it (and hundreds of thousands in the UK definitely aren't).

The point seems pretty clear to me. Those people are in poverty because of lockdowns. Yes, this is more applicable to places like Africa and Asia than to the UK, but as I mentioned in that point, it's on a global scale that I'm not at all convinced lockdowns will save more than they cost, in lives, health, money or anything else. I hope I'm wrong, as I said before, but only time will tell.

 

[MJ100]

"joined 25 minutes ago"

As I said, I've been looking at this thread for a year because it gave good information. I felt I had to register to make my point about all the insults flying around. Not sure why you felt the need to quote that.

 

[Orang Utan]

Think of it as a stare out contest. Just don't blink

 

[editor]

Standing by for the inevitable flaming and/or banning, but I had to make my point. I hope you can tone down the insulting of random posters and random members of the public and just stick to your useful and informative updates and data analysis.

FYI: You're not going to get banned for politely disagreeing with someone, but you may find people will robustly counter your claims.

 

[stdP]

Those people are in poverty because of lockdowns.

Surely the people are in poverty because of the pandemic, and not the lockdowns themselves...? Even if no government in the world had enforced a lockdown, because of the correspondingly appalling death toll wouldn't people still be afraid to venture outside and work/shop/socialise as per usual?

Again, I can only speak from what I've seen of the UK government (and to a much lesser degree, the west as a whole); some governments have tried to cushion the inevitable blow to the public better than others, but I don't see how the blow could have been avoided entirely by either avoiding or prematurely ending lockdowns.

 

[teuchter]

It's like how the fire brigade is always going around destroying people's homes, spraying water about and bashing the doors in. We need to stop it.

 

[hypernormalized]

Sorry, the last straw today, Elbows. I've been following this thread for a year now because you and other posters such as LynnDoyleCooper have given very informative replies to various questions, plenty of useful data etc. But lately I can't help but notice you're on the insult bus all the time. Just stop it. Please.

Calling someone a "pathetic little threat to public health" because they commented about something being the "last straw" for many people is just offensive and ignorant in equal measure. It shows that you really, really don't understand (or perhaps don't care about) the toll these lockdowns are taking on millions of people. Despite what you seem to think, Covid is NOT the only issue facing this country. I'm sure you know that really, but again, it's not showing through. I know that studying the epidemic is your area of expertise but the fact remains that there are innumerable other issues that lockdowns raise.

Whether or not that will cause more harm than good in the long run remains to be seen. I personally think that lockdowns will do more harm than good, certainly on a global scale, but of course I hope it isn't the case and I'm perfectly willing, in five or ten years, to stand corrected. But all you need to do is look at UN reports of x million kids entering food insecurity, or 200 million (I think?) people entering extreme poverty as a direct result of lockdowns to start having doubts. It's reasonable to have doubts, especially if you, your family or your friends are being impacted severely by the effects of lockdowns. Jumping directly to call someone a cunt because they have doubts about the cost-benefit analysis (which, incidentally, the fast food guy who I'd never heard of before is quite right about, since we the public have not seen any such thing from government) is just childish and stupid, and frankly from what I've seen of your level-headed analysis earlier in the pandemic, I'd expect better from you. I understand that you hate the government, which is reasonable, and you're no fan of big business, which is also reasonable, but when you start hurling insults around left right and centre, calling anyone who opposes or simply believes in the downsides of lockdown a "pandemic cunt" or a "lockdown shithead" then you start losing respect fast.

Standing by for the inevitable flaming and/or banning, but I had to make my point. I hope you can tone down the insulting of random posters and random members of the public and just stick to your useful and informative updates and data analysis.

People are under a lot of stress and are lashing out. I've been there too, on here and elsewhere.

Insults don't change the fact that my friends and family have been declining in compliance as time goes on, this year especially (and in particular due to vaccination; my neighbours two jabs in are back in Feb 2020).

I'll be glad to pass on the information to my grandmother that someone on the internet thinks she's a "threat to public health" for wanting to cuddle her grandson after a year of isolation, it'll get a good laugh out of her.

To be honest, the more people on the internet and telly waffle on calling me a cunt for living my life, the more interest I have in getting off the internet and getting out in the real world. Can't imagine why.

 

[Smangus]

The point seems pretty clear to me. Those people are in poverty because of lockdowns. Yes, this is more applicable to places like Africa and Asia than to the UK, but as I mentioned in that point, it's on a global scale that I'm not at all convinced lockdowns will save more than they cost, in lives, health, money or anything else. I hope I'm wrong, as I said before, but only time will tell.

Plenty of people in food poverty before the pandemic in this country, see the rise in use of foodbanks for one. Lockdown has only exposed the cracks in our society even further, cracks widened deliberately by the party in power witht the systematic reduction in safety nets over the years.

When businesses stop avoiding tax ,pay their share, stop bitching about minimum wages, costs and "burdans" then I'll take your point. The majority of covid relief money has been thrown at businesses, not individuals. They are still hoping to get thier massive 20 quid a week after March.

 

[hypernormalized]

It's like how the fire brigade is always going around destroying people's homes, spraying water about and bashing the doors in. We need to stop it.

Personally I've flooded my house as a pre-emptive measure. Can't burn moist wood. If we all do the same, we can reduce the load on the fire service.