Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[cupid_stunt]

Isn't that largely because of the shape of the curve in the first wave, which saw a fairly even and steady increase. The curve for the 2nd wave has been much less tidy to far.

We have been seeing a 'fairly even and steady increase' in the last 7 days or so, much like that in the first wave.

 

[Cloo]

I am wondering what we are aiming at before things can be eased off.

R-level threshold falling below certain point?
Getting to a point where enough vulnerable people are immunised that, even if loads of people are infected we will have 80% fewer (or whatever) people in hospital with fewer concomitant deaths?

Because there's going to have to be (I hope) a point before everyone is immunised where you say things can ease a bit - or will we all only be allowed to meet outdoors all this year?

 

[cupid_stunt]

We had a discussion on this thread, about a week ago, regarding ever increasing number of doctors saying they were seeing more younger patients being admitted to hospital, but no official data to confirm that at the time, is it available now?

Tonight I've watched BBC, Sky & C-4 news, all reporting from different hospitals, with doctors saying they are seeing a lot more patients in their 30's & 40's compared to the first wave.

Then there's this...

A quarter of coronavirus admissions to hospital are people under the age of 55, the head of NHS England has said.

Sir Simon Stevens told MPs on Monday the virus was spreading out of control across much of the country, with worrying consequences for hospitals. “In London perhaps one in 30 people has the coronavirus, in parts of London it may be twice that number. In Merseyside in just the last week there has been a further 50% increase in the number of Covid hospitalisations,” he said.

“It’s worth remembering that this affects all ages – a quarter of the Covid admissions to hospital right now are for people aged under 55.”

Officials later confirmed that for the week commencing 28 December, 3,326 under-55s were admitted to hospitals in England, out of 13,530 overall admissions.

Quarter of Covid hospital admissions in England aged under 55

NHS boss Sir Simon Stevens reveals figure as he tells MPs the virus is spreading out of control

www.theguardian.com

 

[kabbes]

There isn't a rule though. Just "local area" which is completely open to interpretation.

If we're going to start enforcing this rule let's start with car drivers.

I’m afraid that this is not an either/or. My village is still full of people on a weekend that are driving to the village to then go mountain biking. (Which is fucking stupid anyway given how many of them then get injured and just how much you do not want to need a hospital right now, but that’s a whole other layer of selfishness.). The bikers ARE the ones driving to then take their exercise. Oh yeah, and they doing it in groups of 3, 4, 5, 6 too and then getting a coffee afterwards and hanging around in the village centre to drink it. All activities that are normal for normal times but all totally illegal for them to be doing at the present

 

[campanula]

I handed in an irate letter to my local Tesco after having to wait behind some shouty maskless fuckwit. I told them that I would be doing my shopping in Waitrose from now on, where no-one is allowed in without a mask and mandatory hand cleaning. Also claimed several of my neighbours had complained of the same (although this bit was a lie). I imagine if they thought their bottom-line was going to be more impacted by vanishing shoppers, they might take protecting their staff a bit more seriously too.

 

[Cid]

I handed in an irate letter to my local Tesco after having to wait behind some shouty maskless fuckwit. I told them that I would be doing my shopping in Waitrose from now on, where no-one is allowed in without a mask and mandatory hand cleaning. Also claimed several of my neighbours had complained of the same (although this bit was a lie). I imagine if they thought their bottom-line was going to be more impacted by vanishing shoppers, they might take protecting their staff a bit more seriously too.

Yeah, I'm tempted to switch to Morrison's from my nearby Tesco. But means a drive, which I'd rather not do given the context.

 

[existentialist]

People like me, who are lodgers, aren't entitled to a support bubble, because of not living alone. Not sure how a landlady who I barely see counts as not living alone. I dont want to complain about things being unfair, but not sure why an entire family who has a child under one gets to make a bubble when I don't. Means an extremely lonely existence during the winter.

Coming back to this...there is always an arbitrariness when laws and rules are drawn up, and there will always be people caught in "technicalities" like yours. To play devil's advocate, I suppose the fact that you are sharing a home with someone does present a slightly increased risk of cross-infection, which wouldn't be there if you were living absolutely alone (even though I acknowledge that you don't get the benefits that accrue from living with someone). But that has to be balanced against the practical implications - you are, to all intents and purposes, living on your own and could reasonably need some kind of emotional support.

I don't know the answer. If there was any feeling that we could say "look, these are the risks - and these are the things you have to do to mitigate them. Do all of the things that you can, but we recognise that there might be situations where...etc.". But we missed that opportunity - if it was ever a goer in the first place - when the government so comprehensively botched every step they took, and serially undermined the notion of a co-operative, collaborative response to the virus.

I think, in your shoes, I'd be aiming to minimise contact with the landlady as far as possible (and, presumably, you have some idea of the level of risk she might present in any case), and make cautious emotional support bubble arrangements with whoever, on the basis that they, too, are going to be very careful about their own exposure to risk.

The thing about all this stuff - which I think Chris Whitty was trying to say - is that it's cumulative. If you're wearing a mask, doing the handwashing/sanitising thing, minimising unnecessary contact, all of those things add up. But (as Christ Whitty did not say) there will inevitably be times when we need to compromise our biosecurity in order to achieve certain things - earn a living, buy necessities, have some kind of social interaction - and if we're taking as many precautions as we can in other areas, perhaps we can afford to trade a little of that off against getting all our needs met, including emotionally.

But that requires a degree of honesty with ourselves. I am sure that exists across a significant proportion of the population - I don't know if it's significant enough, and there's always room for improvement, but if those of us who are able to make the necessary choices do so, all we can hope for is that we bring enough of the rest with us in due course.

 

[Cid]

I’m afraid that this is not an either/or. My village is still full of people on a weekend that are driving to the village to then go mountain biking. (Which is fucking stupid anyway given how many of them then get injured and just how much you do not want to need a hospital right now, but that’s a whole other layer of selfishness.). The bikers ARE the ones driving to then take their exercise. Oh yeah, and they doing it in groups of 3, 4, 5, 6 too and then getting a coffee afterwards and hanging around in the village centre to drink it. All activities that are normal for normal times but all totally illegal for them to be doing at the present

The obvious bottleneck there is still the car though.

 

[kabbes]

The obvious bottleneck there is still the car though.

What do you mean by bottleneck?

the obvious problem is the entitled fucks who think that the rules don’t apply to them and it’s still okay to arrange with their mates to drive somewhere and pursue a dangerous sport for the day.

 

[campanula]

Yeah, I'm tempted to switch to Morrison's from my nearby Tesco. But means a drive, which I'd rather not do given the context.

O for sure I am not actually going to just shop at Waitrose (apart from chicken) but I am good with Tesco thinking I am.

 

[Cid]

What do you mean by bottleneck.

the obvious problem is the entitled fucks who think that the rules don’t apply to them and it’s still okay to arrange with their mates to drive somewhere and pursue a dangerous sport for the day.

You don't stop the biker, who could be anyone, you stop the car with a bunch of bikes on the back. It doesn't really affect teuchter's point. It's also a fuck of a lot easier to stop cars and check driver details.

 

[kabbes]

You don't stop the biker, who could be anyone, you stop the car with a bunch of bikes on the back. It doesn't really affect teuchter's point. It's also a fuck of a lot easier to stop cars and check driver details.

Or you go out with a hammer and bag of nails and start banging them into the tyres of parked cars with bike racks hanging off the back. Don’t think this isn’t tempting.

 

[existentialist]

Or you go out with a hammer and bag of nails and start banging them into the tyres of parked cars with bike racks hanging off the back. Don’t think this isn’t tempting.

Caltrops.

 

[Cid]

Or you go out with a hammer and bag of nails and start banging them into the tyres of parked cars with bike racks hanging off the back. Don’t think this isn’t tempting.

The amount of bikers you get they must be really good trails. Think I might have to pop down, once regulations ease up of course.

 

[crossthebreeze]

If its exercise from your front door, or exercise within 2 or 5 miles, or don't do dangerous exercise - they need to put this in law or at actual written least guidance.

 

[Cid]

If its exercise from your front door, or exercise within 2 or 5 miles, or don't do dangerous exercise - they need to put this in law or at actual written least guidance.

Yeah it is totally baffling why they can't make these things clear. It is not that hard.

 

[kabbes]

The amount of bikers you get they must be really good trails. Think I might have to pop down, once regulations ease up of course.

Yes, come and join them in making illegal trails on the SSSI, thus threatening vulnerable wildlife.

 

[kabbes]

If its exercise from your front door, or exercise within 2 or 5 miles, or don't do dangerous exercise - they need to put this in law or at actual written least guidance.

The guidance is clear enough that you should stay in your local area and that this means within your village or town if applicable.

 

[agricola]

If its exercise from your front door, or exercise within 2 or 5 miles, or don't do dangerous exercise - they need to put this in law or at actual written least guidance.

They'll never do that, it would just result in their sort getting tickets / pinched. It would be like making going to your country retreat illegal (which it 100% should be, given the level of healthcare in some parts of the country).

 

[kebabking]

If its exercise from your front door, or exercise within 2 or 5 miles, or don't do dangerous exercise - they need to put this in law or at actual written least guidance.

I'll be stunned if, when all the epidemiology is done, people even taking the piss while exercising - or going somewhere to exercise - are determined to have contributed more than the tiniest sliver of transmission to this gangfuck.

The big transmission nodes will be supermarkets, households, workplaces, schools, hospitals and old people's homes, and none of this driving 10 miles to go for a walk or sitting on a park bench for 5 minutes will go within a thousand miles of the effects of any of the above.

 

[two sheds]

Yes, come and join them in making illegal trails on the SSSI, thus threatening vulnerable wildlife.

You're lucky

Regularly get motor bikes and worse 4x4s in the SSSI valley near me. Weekend before last five or six 4x4s drove down there for a bit of a jolly.

 

[teuchter]

Or you go out with a hammer and bag of nails and start banging them into the tyres of parked cars with bike racks hanging off the back. Don’t think this isn’t tempting.

I'd not stop you from doing that. Can you do it to the cars of dog walkers too?

 

[BigMoaner]

Anyone over 70 getting the vaccine yet? Or is it still over 80s?

both my parents have - my mum 75, dad 78 - mum clinc vulnerable. When they called her, she asked if my dad could get his done too, they agreed.

 

[kabbes]

I'd not stop you from doing that. Can you do it to the cars of dog walkers too?

With pleasure...

(It’s a bit more obvious what’s going on when the car has a bike rack on the back though)

 

[kabbes]

You're lucky

Regularly get motor bikes and worse 4x4s in the SSSI valley near me. Weekend before last five or six 4x4s drove down there for a bit of a jolly.

Oh yes, we get those too. But not during this lockdown so far — they’ve backed off for now.

 

[chilango]

Hark at all the poshos with SSSIs in their back yards. We've got the skips round the back of Nandos and the forecourt of the BP garage

 

[two sheds]

Was walking in the valley year before last and there was a council van with a couple of people in it so I wandered over to say hello as you would cos it was a weekend, and I saw they were actually two police sat in there. I asked how come and they said they were after the motor cyclists who would scarper if they saw a police car but wouldn't if they saw a council van.

:sneaky: but

 

[kabbes]

I'll be stunned if, when all the epidemiology is done, people even taking the piss while exercising - or going somewhere to exercise - are determined to have contributed more than the tiniest sliver of transmission to this gangfuck.

The big transmission nodes will be supermarkets, households, workplaces, schools, hospitals and old people's homes, and none of this driving 10 miles to go for a walk or sitting on a park bench for 5 minutes will go within a thousand miles of the effects of any of the above.

This may or may not be right (although when four 40-something men all get out of a single BMW X5 to unpack their bikes, it’s not exactly a great sign that they are successfully socially distancing). But it’s not the point. If the law has been set up to prevent something, somebody thought that preventing it was important. People picking and choosing which elements of the lockdown they want to obey is a problem, because once you start down that route, which is to say who should be doing what?

This is what the law says:

If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay local - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work. Stay local means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.

Living safely with respiratory infections, including COVID-19

Guidance for living safely with respiratory infections, including coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.gov.uk

 

[two sheds]

Hark at all the poshos with SSSIs in their back yards. We've got the skips round the back of Nandos and the forecourt of the BP garage

well it's covered with poisonous heavy metals which means fuck-all grows there except gorse and heather and mosses and there are rare mosses which is why it's an SSSI

 

[Cid]

I'm sorry for opening the SSSI can of worms, probably not the right thread...