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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

prunus said:
There are certainly at least a couple of things that will emerge from data and/or studies over the next few weeks that will indicate the course of the next phase - not just antigen escape of the new mutant(s), but also whether there's any statistical significance behind the anecdotal reports of either B117 (UK) or 501.v2 (SA) causing severe disease at higher rates in young people than wild type.

(Vaguely-informed) speculation on the former follows:

The 10 501.v2 mutations are all in the parts of the virus that the vaccines target, and largely the natural immume response too (as they are the functional and/or most exposed parts). This obviously could well cause decreased efficacy of the 'lock-and-key' mechanism the induced antibodies use to target the virus. One should remember though that the spike protein is the part of the virus that has to 'lock-and-key' to our cells as well, so it doesn't have the freedom to be totally labile - it has to keep enough of its own 'key' shape to be able to infect - hopefully that also retains enough of its 'lock' shape for at least some of the wild-type/vaccine induced antibodies to work - enough to keep the damn thing under control in an infection to a) prevent serious disease and b) give the body's immune system time to make some new keys to fit these new locks. Bascially the challenge faced by the virus is to change its shape enough so that the antibody proteins can't recognise it, but the cell proteins that give it entry still can. This is not an easy thing to do.

The production methods for the main vaccine types are very fast and flexible as well - adding in the code to make the new versions of the spike protein should be able to be done very quickly (even a matter of weeks) - certainly long before most people have any chance of getting near a vaccine. I haven't heard if they're working on the new sequences yet, but I'd be very surprised if they're not doing at least some of the preliminary work already.

Because of the 'lock-and-key' element above it's likely that there's a finite number of mutations the virus can add to its spike protein in an attempt to evade immunity before it breaks it - it may well be that we have a short arms race with the bastard over the next little while, while we learn (substantially) all of its forms (yes, even its final form), and make a cocktail vaccine to cover all of them. It is unlikely to be able to do the endless polymorphism that flu does for instance. In the meantime it's reasonable to hope that imperfectly fitting immunity will have some (enough) protective effect on those who receive the vaccine early.
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Top post. My stomach has unknotted somewhat after reading it.
 
I share people's concern about so much more stuff happening than in March lockdown.
And would now not be a good time to make face masks in all indoor work environments compulsory, customer-facing or not?
I observed it again in November "lockdown". I had to go to my workplace (whilst on furlough myself) to collect something, and because there were no customers, the colleagues who were working weren't wearing masks. Now, on paper, the place should be covid-safe in terms of distancing, with six people in a place of many, many hundred square meters - but: Out of six, three of them were bunched behind a desk together, looking at something on the same computer screen. Only briefly, I guess, and I don't really blame them, because it seems that it is so utterly human to gravitate towards each other like little magnets. A two meter distance can feel very unnatural and unfriendly and even rude; it is extremely hard to maintain consistently, so that's all the more reasons to have that simple piece of protective equipment!
 
Masking up / social distancing seems to have been a bit better around here - largely, I think, because it is a small town so peer pressure and the spike in infections before crimble (&NYE) acted as a kick in the arse to some of the waverers. [No change to that narrow pavement that is so problematical].

However, a slight factor in the lack of public PPE/mask wearing might be that the cost now includes VAT - charged at 20% - I bought a bulk supply of masks in the last two / three days before the VAT was re-imposed ...
note : masks should be three layers, not just one cloth layer.

E2A - and a lot of people STILL have no idea of what 2m actually looks like, and are equally bad at estimating 6ft6" separations ...
 
I was just chatting to my mum who is in NI, and very relieved to be back in lockdown as she says people are breaking rules all over the place. She told me that most people in her street had big Xmas gatherings, as was permitted, and now three families have all got Covid, sadly including their grandparents who had been shielding. Thankfully mum is being safe, and staying indoors as much as she can, but what on earth is going to happen if this doesn't work? My idiot step brother is a Covid denier, even though his wife got it! I'm so scared for you guys, I made the mistake of going on mumsnet just now and so many people are trying to find loopholes, or just openly admitting they aren't bothering with rules any more. Fucking Boris Johnson and that prick Cummins, so much blood on their hands!:mad:
 
TopCat said:
Loads of mask less shoppers in Old Kent Road Lidl last night. Fucking twats. Security should keep the cunts out.
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Pickman's model said:
DK whereabouts in hackney you are but in my bit of the borough I'd say it's best described as variable
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Do you think it varies by supermarket?

I started using Lidl & Aldi when I moved house and had both within walking distance to my house. Since March, I have shopped a lot more at M&S and Waitrose, because we middle class old ladies all wear masks and are respectful of each other. I also use the 'big Tesco' which has wide aisles and is still policing numbers of people in store and face mask wearing.

My local Lidl is particularly bad, lots of people not wearing masks and long queues at the self service tills. They have definitely lost my business because of this, but I guess all the supermarkets will be doing well with less eating out. And obviously limiting the number of people who come in has an effect on sales.
 
My bro had a lidl near his home in central B'ham - according to him, during the first / second lockdowns it was manic in there. Few masks and zero social distancing. He works anti-social shift hours anyway, and those have got worse as his colleagues have to self-isolate etc ... so he was left with that lidl as the only place open within sensible walking distance on more than one occasion [he can't drive].
I must check on him today ...
 
Boudicca said:
Do you think it varies by supermarket?

I started using Lidl & Aldi when I moved house and had both within walking distance to my house. Since March, I have shopped a lot more at M&S and Waitrose, because we middle class old ladies all wear masks and are respectful of each other. I also use the 'big Tesco' which has wide aisles and is still policing numbers of people in store and face mask wearing.

My local Lidl is particularly bad, lots of people not wearing masks and long queues at the self service tills. They have definitely lost my business because of this, but I guess all the supermarkets will be doing well with less eating out. And obviously limiting the number of people who come in has an effect on sales.
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Perhaps it varies by supermarket. But it's perhaps more noticeable in other shops, eg I've been the only person wearing a mask sometimes particularly in an offie I go to occasionally in dalston
 
Pickman's model said:
Perhaps it varies by supermarket. But it's perhaps more noticeable in other shops, eg I've been the only person wearing a mask sometimes particularly in an offie I go to occasionally in dalston
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Agree with this. I normally buy a lot of groceries in my local Turkish shop but I've given up due to minimal mask wearing and lack of space to distance from other people.
 
I've ended up only going to Tesco, partly due to slightly better mask compliance and entry system, but mainly due to the wider aisles, it just feels so much safer. The nearest Morrisons has absurdly narrow and high aisles that feels like a complete viral death trap. Supermarkets have behaved really badly through this I think - started well in March and then by the summer they have just washed their hands of any responsibility.
 
I only go in the metro/local sized shops so am usually only in there for 5 mins or so. During the first lockdown I stopped going in one sainsbury as I always ended up feeling panicked. there is another one the same distance up the hill which was much better. If there was a queue to get in I wouldn't go as that meant they were filled to capacity.

We get very little info on transmission in workplaces and no one seems to be policing them in any way.
 
We stopped using Lidl in march for the same reasons. Now using Sainsbury's, more expensive but we feel safer. Luckily we can go at 8ish on a Monday morning when there are far fewer people in there too.
 
Where I live, Aldi was frightening the one time I went in there, so Sainsbury's has been getting my dosh throughout. The shop I go to opens at 7, so I am there at about one minute past 7. In, round, out and home in twenty minutes. The only people in there at that time are the staff, picking for the deliveries/click and collect. Suits me fine.

My local corner shop over the road opens from 7am to midnight and they have got a door they can lock with a button on the counter. Once there are two customers in the shop, they lock the door till one wants to go out. Marvellous system. Far better than the corner shop up the road a bit, where any time I pass there seems to be a gang of teenagers lolling about and shouting at mates inside and bobbing in and out without masks. Ghastly. Not been in there for months.
 
Yeah, agree with all these concerns. I’ve got deliveries booked this time. First one arrived this morning and already a lot missing and/or substituted. But it’s better than the exposure in a big supermarket with the same air circulating.

My local corner shop just across from us is very good for bits and pieces, but you do get trapped by people ignoring the two at a time sign on the door. Last time I was in, the guy in front of me was having problems with his card. He was there for ages, no mask, coughing on his hands then touching the card keypad. I haven’t been in since, not that it was the boys’ fault, but I was totally freaked.
 
Lidl and Aldi are terrible. I sent a complaint email to Aldi because they insisted on only opening the toll nearest the door meaning there was no way to access the shop without literally pushing past people in the queue. I got a nonsense answer so haven't been back. Lidl have been little better but they have the best food and rewards scheme so I just mask up and go as quickly as I can.
 
lazythursday said:
I've ended up only going to Tesco, partly due to slightly better mask compliance and entry system, but mainly due to the wider aisles, it just feels so much safer. The nearest Morrisons has absurdly narrow and high aisles that feels like a complete viral death trap. Supermarkets have behaved really badly through this I think - started well in March and then by the summer they have just washed their hands of any responsibility.
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The only store I have seen attempt to enforce mask wearing is my nearest branch of Little Waitrose (shit name). They have employed the same security guard throughout the pandemic. He looks tough, says little and has a very upright posture, so maybe he's ex-Army. No one gets in without a mask He quietly tells everyone to disinfect their hands.

The only way to make such practices common is to have an inspection system backed up with hefty fines as with the sale of age-restricted goods.
 
Aldi and Lidl were pretty busy and overwhelming even before covid so I can imagine they are just the same now.
 
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danny la rouge said:
Yeah, agree with all these concerns. I’ve got deliveries booked this time. First one arrived this morning and already a lot missing and/or substituted. But it’s better than the exposure in a big supermarket with the same air circulating.

My local corner shop just across from us is very good for bits and pieces, but you do get trapped by people ignoring the two at a time sign on the door. Last time I was in, the guy in front of me was having problems with his card. He was there for ages, no mask, coughing on his hands then touching the card keypad. I haven’t been in since, not that it was the boys’ fault, but I was totally freaked.
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Local shop has been delivering basics to me every week for a couple of years. They've expanded that and now deliver to 20 or 30 houses in the area. The shopkeeper said it's made up somewhat for the loss of business this year. Am surprised more shops aren't doing it really.
 
Boudicca said:
Do you think it varies by supermarket?

I started using Lidl & Aldi when I moved house and had both within walking distance to my house. Since March, I have shopped a lot more at M&S and Waitrose, because we middle class old ladies all wear masks and are respectful of each other. I also use the 'big Tesco' which has wide aisles and is still policing numbers of people in store and face mask wearing.

My local Lidl is particularly bad, lots of people not wearing masks and long queues at the self service tills. They have definitely lost my business because of this, but I guess all the supermarkets will be doing well with less eating out. And obviously limiting the number of people who come in has an effect on sales.
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I want the quality and value of Lidl and am stubborn about this. I am going once a month, at night (usually after 21:00) and buying up the place.

Not many people at that time and room to avoid the mask less and potter through all the tat.

Cab there and back with the windows open and rain pissing in. Cabbie was perfectly fine about the water ingress and my twelve bags of shopping plus booze.
 
platinumsage said:
I suspect there will be a very limited number of ways in which this virus will be able to escape vaccines and remain so infectious. I don’t see this being like influenza A because that’s really quite exceptional in the way different strains of it can recombine so easily.

I don’t think flu comparisons are realistic. I think it’s much more likely that once we have vaccinated against the “easy” mutations of this, then it’s going to become a niche thing that we can move on from. Whether that takes one year or ten years time will tell.
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We'll just have to wait and see, I dont have any fixed expectations about this and would not like to have to choose which possibility I consider most likely. I suppose I expect some setbacks, and I am deeply unimpressed with the research done on other coronaviruses in decades past so am somewhat wary of certain aspects of conventional wisdom in this area. I'd certainly rather have gone for a pandemic strategy that minimised the number of infections, and thus mutation opportunities, and some of the possible implications from using convalescent plasma bother me, but I dont generally believe in leaping too far ahead with my thoughts.
 
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