Compulsory Work for Benefit Claimants in Denmark

[paul mckenna]

That’s because we weren’t immigrants. We were Occupiers. Besides you can steal most people’s stuff just by speaking loudly and slowly and having guns when they were armed with fruit.

Very subversive. Good stuff. Again though, pretty tangential to the question at hand

 

[paul mckenna]

Do you speak a second language?

German and starting Dutch since moving here 18 months ago. Don't claim benefits

 

[Pickman's model]

Immigrants of working age are normally more than eager to learn the language of their new host country. If nothing else, just to be able to live normal lives, buy things in the shops, ask directions, chat with the neighbours, make new friends, etc etc.
It's not always true, of course. The English, mostly, never bothered learning the language in Wales, Ireland, Scotland or indeed the whole bleeding British Empire.

I think it was the first world war that did for the German language in the USA: for many years before the war there were thriving German language newspapers in america

 

[A380]

I think it's very relevant that immigrants should learn the language. Isn't that obvious?

And when one subsection of society does not work despite the opportunity, then i also think it's relevant that they should not receive benefits. Again, pretty obvious

How about big tellys Paul, a Mate has a friend who’s uncle’s window cleaner’s ex wife knew a bloke who’s sisters worked for the Council in Denmark a d she said that all immigrants who don’t work get a 72 inch television off the council. What is your opinion on that?

 

[existentialist]

German and starting Dutch since moving here 18 months ago. Don't claim benefits

I'm not talking about the benefits: I'm curious as to what your assumption that people would find it easy to learn a foreign tongue is based upon.

 

[Pickman's model]

German and starting Dutch since moving here 18 months ago. Don't claim benefits

Is dcb a statement or a demand? Are you eligible to claim benefits in Holland?

 

[paul mckenna]

How about big tellys Paul, a Mate has a friend who’s uncle’s window cleaner’s ex wife knew a bloke who’s sisters worked for the Council in Denmark a d she said that all immigrants who don’t work get a 72 inch television off the council. What is your opinion on that?

Firm no for me on that

 

[A380]

I think it was the first world war that did for the German language in the USA: for many years before the war there were thriving German language newspapers in america

There was a debate apparently about whether to adopt German as the official language in the States. Apparently it was never likely to pass but it was a serious consideration not a light hearted approach. Their army was based on the Prussian rather than the English model and lots of their cultural stuff is drawn from Germany rather than here.

 

[paul mckenna]

I'm not talking about the benefits: I'm curious as to what your assumption that people would find it easy to learn a foreign tongue is based upon.

So now we're sliding into "unable to learn" territory. OK, updating...

Should able-bodied immigrants of average learning ability and better not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

 

[existentialist]

So now we're sliding into "unable to learn" territory. OK, updating...

Should able-bodied immigrants of average learning ability and better not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

Keep going, and you'll reach the point where it will be evident even to you that this is an ill-conceived notion from the start.

 

[andysays]

Happy to rephrase.

Should able-bodied immigrants not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

Do you have any figures for how many of these

able-bodied immigrants not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period

there are in Denmark (or elsewhere) and how much the benefits they currently claim are worth?

Or do you think it's possible that this may simply be some sort of blatant populist ploy by the Danish government to convince people that this is a significant issue which they are bravely dealing with, when in fact it's nothing of the sort?

 

[A380]

Firm no for me on that

You have t got a big telly of the council? Must be an oversight as you are an immigrant. Get yourself down to the Stadt House or Hotel de Ville sharpish and demand your big telly. Just speak slowly but loudly in English.if they don’t understand just put an ‘O’ on the end - “big-o Television-o’ should do the trick.

 

[paul mckenna]

I have no numbers. I have no societal cost. I have but a question:

Should able-bodied immigrants not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take prescribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

 

[existentialist]

I have no numbers. I have no societal cost. I have but a question:

Should able-bodied immigrants not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

Minor detail, but you probably really, really don't mean "proscribed".

 

[A380]

I have no numbers. I have no societal cost. I have but a question:

Should able-bodied immigrants not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

No.

 

[paul mckenna]

thanks A380. An answer is all I ever wanted

 

[andysays]

I have no numbers. I have no societal cost. I have but a question:

Should able-bodied immigrants not speaking the native language and who do not to work (or take proscribed work duties) for a defined period forfeit benefits?

My answer is "no".

 

[paul mckenna]

"ok". I get the real meaning. Say no more

 

[existentialist]

I'm still clarifying the question...

 

[andysays]

thanks A380. An answer is all I ever wanted

"just asking questions"...

 

[A380]

thanks A380. An answer is all I ever wanted

Justt an answer and not a kitten, everybody wants a kitten.

Why do you hate Kitehs so much? Why?

 

[paul mckenna]

ik hou van kittens, maar vooral van mijn medeburgers

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I am an immigrant here. AMA.

I have claimed benefits for 1 month out of 16.5 years. I wasn't working in that period. I did have to apply for jobs in that time to keep receiving benefits. Even though I had a job offer lined up. That was pretty pointless. And they had to be jobs from their system, in order to keep the benefits. Their system, needless to say, was shit and not relevant to my profession. I'm pretty sure, that these phantom immigrant women feel the same way.
Peter Hummelgaard can fucking do one. Go pick up fag butts yourself. Tøssedreng.

This isn't yet law. It's just proposals and like any decent populist government worth its salt, they will push forward on jingoistic posturing of the others, so people can feel better about themselves.

 

[paul mckenna]

You clearly learnt the language. Do you think all immigrants should? Boris Sprinkler

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

no. It's not completely relevant. It's not like you can use it elsewhere. It's no swimming ceritificate.
Most of my conversations are a mix of danish and english.
A williningness to be understood and understand others will help you. But this is just dog whistle stuff.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Let's try a different tack. Just what percentage of current immigrants in the U.K. do you think speak no English? (I'll put Welsh and Gaelic to one side for now). Well I just looked it up and 89% of adult immigrants in the 2011 census spoke a da English well or very well. I would imagine the other 11% spoke it less well.
Hmmn. I see no problem here. So why do you?

 

[skyscraper101]

Are you fluent Boris Sprinkler ? I’ve always been interested in how much actual native language one needs in the very anglo-fluent scandi/benelux countries when just going about life.

I generally always feel really bad defaulting to English outside of obvious places like tourism/hotels and feel it’s kind of rude just rocking up and speaking English in a bar or whatever, but also embarrassed to ask if they understand English because in 90% of cases it’s like duh of course and it also seems sort of patronising to even ask (very British problems.)

Hypothetically how practical is it to just go about life speaking English all the time anyway? I’d assume there must be a point where you just have to engage - at least for reading and listening for daily life stuff. Surely there are official/civil things that are just only in the local language? Eg. Navigating phone systems, government forms, sorting out a bank account, etc.

 

[Elpenor]

My impression from others is that it’s easy to get buy - in Copenhagen at least - without knowing Danish if you know English. My dad and two close mates both worked in Denmark for a very large Danish company for several months, living over there, and never needed to learn Danish for their job.

My mum when she lived out there volunteered via the St Albans English church (by the little mermaid) to teach refugee children English (presumably they were taught Danish too). She must have set up a Danish bank account too as that’s how I got my Pondus the Penguin money box. Again I doubt she spoke much Danish, certainly not enough to ask for a money box (only given to young savers) for her adult child!

 

[weltweit]

If you are on UC / JSA in the UK long enough they can stipulate you do work experience for your benefits.

In my case it was to be called a work placement and it was required for me to continue receiving benefits. As it happens I changed advisor shortly after that and in fact won a proper and job suitable for my background so I didn't have to do it in the end.

I also did volunteering for a local charity, unpaid and not enough to affect my benefit but it kept my hand in where organisations were concerned.

You do in the UK have to apply for work in order to qualify for benefits and maintain a job search log which they like to review at your meetings. JSA / UC isn't really an easy route for life ime.

 

[existentialist]

My impression from others is that it’s easy to get buy - in Copenhagen at least - without knowing Danish if you know English. My dad and two close mates both worked in Denmark for a very large Danish company for several months, living over there, and never needed to learn Danish for their job.

My mum when she lived out there volunteered via the St Albans English church (by the little mermaid) to teach refugee children English (presumably they were taught Danish too). She must have set up a Danish bank account too as that’s how I got my Pondus the Penguin money box. Again I doubt she spoke much Danish, certainly not enough to ask for a money box (only given to young savers) for her adult child!

Back in the day, my work used to take me all over the place, to various countries. I was sent to Copenhagen one time, and - as I generally tried to do - I set about trying to pick up bits of the local language. After repeated enquiries of my "host" as to what was the Danish for this or that, he pointed out to me that the UK had a population ten times that of Denmark, and in any case, nearly everyone in Denmark learned English, particularly given their maritime heritage, so why bother?